1 00:00:15,20 --> 00:00:21,36 Because you know I just want to all. Three right let's get started 2 00:00:22,12 --> 00:00:27,05 for house tonight so. Eastern commissioners. Call. 3 00:00:31,03 --> 00:00:37,80 This the Armstrong here this person here just because I'm here Mr Galen 4 00:00:38,02 --> 00:00:43,31 here Mr Hall and they are going through right now here Mr Cain are here is there 5 00:00:43,32 --> 00:00:49,43 any more here and Mr Woods here. We have nine actually. 6 00:00:51,26 --> 00:00:58,03 OK. I'm going to do next to put more minutes you would know when you do this in 7 00:00:58,04 --> 00:01:01,68 September one thousand but I think we're going to be up to seventeen minutes for 8 00:01:02,46 --> 00:01:02,65 just 9 00:01:02,66 --> 00:01:09,77 a minute of course cation their. Intent emotion the proof on the minutes 10 00:01:09,78 --> 00:01:11,28 for October seventeenth. 11 00:01:18,99 --> 00:01:25,56 When she got her second. And so any further discussion. 12 00:01:26,60 --> 00:01:33,21 For could. See in the first. It's 13 00:01:33,48 --> 00:01:40,20 strong abstain. This person. Says. 14 00:01:43,24 --> 00:01:50,19 Hi. Mr Gale Oh. Mr. Mr 15 00:01:50,20 --> 00:01:56,72 and I. Your kind are. It's Renoir time and Mr Woods 16 00:01:57,28 --> 00:02:03,89 stay. Now she passes. For AND Thank you 17 00:02:04,15 --> 00:02:10,48 excellent. Right to. Try and. This. 18 00:02:11,92 --> 00:02:18,26 Could be evening I've got a couple communications firsts is we want to welcome 19 00:02:18,27 --> 00:02:25,02 a new member playing commission. Commissioner. Ariane Burson 20 00:02:26,00 --> 00:02:26,99 she has 21 00:02:27,03 --> 00:02:33,56 a. Good background in actually Homeland Security and Emergency 22 00:02:33,57 --> 00:02:40,51 Planning and environmental planning. So. Comes by the way of Florida 23 00:02:40,52 --> 00:02:45,81 and Arizona her current occupation is with the Red Cross as 24 00:02:45,82 --> 00:02:52,67 a disaster program specialist here in Topeka she gets travel to many disasters and 25 00:02:52,90 --> 00:02:57,72 emergencies so we are awfully glad to have her here tonight that means there is no 26 00:02:57,73 --> 00:03:00,63 emergency or disaster taking place so it's always 27 00:03:00,64 --> 00:03:06,97 a good sign. So I just want to welcome welcome. This person Thank you Piers. 28 00:03:08,66 --> 00:03:14,70 My second communication is many of you know there was 29 00:03:14,71 --> 00:03:20,93 a some action at city council last week regarding a re man of the city of faith 30 00:03:20,94 --> 00:03:26,21 a conditional use permit. I just wanted and I was the one upon twenty thirty five 31 00:03:26,22 --> 00:03:32,67 western that will be on our agenda in December. On December 32 00:03:32,68 --> 00:03:38,95 nineteenth and I think what we will do is send back how. 33 00:03:40,09 --> 00:03:42,62 Obviously several of you were not here we have 34 00:03:42,63 --> 00:03:48,64 a new member so what we'd like to do is send out the video link send out the 35 00:03:48,65 --> 00:03:49,72 minutes so not 36 00:03:49,73 --> 00:03:54,94 a summary of what the council direction was for the remaining gets you all the 37 00:03:54,95 --> 00:04:01,29 information. That has transpired really since your meeting. 38 00:04:02,37 --> 00:04:07,26 And make sure that I don't put something together for you to have some some 39 00:04:07,27 --> 00:04:12,66 direction of what they are asking for. In general there just was 40 00:04:12,71 --> 00:04:19,27 a sense of having some more discussion. The one thing that we will not be 41 00:04:19,28 --> 00:04:20,76 advertising is for 42 00:04:20,77 --> 00:04:27,22 a public hearing. It is your prerogative if you decide to take testimony the night 43 00:04:27,23 --> 00:04:34,10 that is up to you in general in the past when things are remanded that the 44 00:04:34,11 --> 00:04:39,91 hearing has been closed you do not have to. Open that up unless you feel there are 45 00:04:40,16 --> 00:04:45,23 different sort of set of circumstances you want to hear from but to do that we 46 00:04:45,24 --> 00:04:50,43 would really need to know that and also it's kind of send out notices not to that 47 00:04:50,44 --> 00:04:57,17 effect so what I would suggest is. That we we send you out 48 00:04:57,57 --> 00:05:04,25 the information for that if you have questions. That we can help answer at the 49 00:05:04,26 --> 00:05:09,20 meeting to let us let's let me know what staff know. What those are so that we can 50 00:05:09,21 --> 00:05:14,84 we can be ready to answer those and provide you even maybe even ahead of time it's 51 00:05:14,85 --> 00:05:20,30 a lot of information. But that that being said we also. 52 00:05:21,89 --> 00:05:27,80 Want to respect the folks the commissioners that had made that were here that night 53 00:05:27,81 --> 00:05:31,11 as well as those that weren't here so we're going to have to inundate you again 54 00:05:31,12 --> 00:05:31,54 with with 55 00:05:31,55 --> 00:05:37,68 a lot of information so apologize in advance but that is sort of the direction that 56 00:05:37,69 --> 00:05:44,50 that is going. If you have any comments or concerns you can feel 57 00:05:44,51 --> 00:05:50,40 free to express those as well tonight. If with any direction but for now that would 58 00:05:50,41 --> 00:05:54,98 be our recommendation is that we proceed with giving you as much information as 59 00:05:54,99 --> 00:05:56,50 possible and having 60 00:05:56,51 --> 00:06:02,94 a discussion of the next agenda without taking testimony OK. So due diligence 61 00:06:02,95 --> 00:06:09,90 question. Should we or should the consensus of the commissioners be 62 00:06:09,91 --> 00:06:16,81 that the public test be taken. I mean you could 63 00:06:16,85 --> 00:06:23,29 open it up that even from protocol perspective should there be time to. 64 00:06:24,53 --> 00:06:28,75 Announce that that's what we're going to do so public can attend if that's if they 65 00:06:28,76 --> 00:06:34,28 so wish or should we. Just by the fact that it's back before the commission assume 66 00:06:34,29 --> 00:06:38,54 that if those are given the opportunity to speak they're going to already be there 67 00:06:39,14 --> 00:06:39,69 because this might be 68 00:06:39,70 --> 00:06:45,94 a protocol question you know if we can pull Mary in to meet the so well and Mary 69 00:06:45,95 --> 00:06:51,91 can certainly. Confirm this but I would say that here if if that's 70 00:06:51,92 --> 00:06:57,25 a decision you want to make and it's made that that night that it would be only 71 00:06:57,26 --> 00:07:04,04 fair to then. Notify people and that which 72 00:07:04,05 --> 00:07:08,42 means you did he would end up delaying we we would come back at the next meeting 73 00:07:08,58 --> 00:07:15,49 and we'd properly advertise it and I'd save more courtesy notices as well as. To 74 00:07:15,50 --> 00:07:22,48 the surrounding. Neighbors that we normally do we will 75 00:07:22,49 --> 00:07:23,04 send out 76 00:07:23,05 --> 00:07:29,38 a note. Courtesy notice to people who have signed up or spoken on this matter in 77 00:07:29,39 --> 00:07:30,02 the past is still 78 00:07:30,03 --> 00:07:36,91 a no it's on the agenda. So OK but that Mary if you have any thoughts you 79 00:07:36,92 --> 00:07:41,37 know just illegally you're not required to entertain any comment and and there has 80 00:07:41,38 --> 00:07:47,31 been an awful lot of comment to date OK And I think that's the key thing unless 81 00:07:47,32 --> 00:07:50,49 there's you. Know 82 00:07:50,50 --> 00:07:56,76 a fictional consensus and commissioners at this point to direct staff otherwise 83 00:07:57,29 --> 00:08:04,16 compel people based on discourse with the council and what I used to form 84 00:08:04,38 --> 00:08:10,89 from I was not present so I can't speak in. The terms of being here one. 85 00:08:12,09 --> 00:08:12,26 At 86 00:08:12,27 --> 00:08:20,56 a time for instance. So here are the ones I can pull. Up 87 00:08:20,57 --> 00:08:24,82 and staffers here for information's chance. 88 00:08:28,69 --> 00:08:35,24 You. And Mr Sharon I think that's why I'm just so you're all comfortable with the 89 00:08:35,25 --> 00:08:41,68 idea usually unless there's something new that you but we all weren't aware of 90 00:08:41,86 --> 00:08:46,61 and I think once we send all that information out to you that spin that's 91 00:08:46,62 --> 00:08:51,40 transpired since then you will be aware of all of the information that has been 92 00:08:51,56 --> 00:08:58,36 submitted as part of the record. So we're not aware of any any thing new that 93 00:08:58,40 --> 00:09:05,27 should open this back up at this point. Thank you very bitter and for which it's 94 00:09:05,61 --> 00:09:12,41 fine. I can track nothing else I believe that 95 00:09:12,42 --> 00:09:18,97 is all I have to like to thank you. But for the record. I wouldn't read 96 00:09:18,98 --> 00:09:24,31 anything into the placement of dispersant and backroom homeland security being 97 00:09:24,32 --> 00:09:28,85 between two words restructuring. Or thought 98 00:09:28,86 --> 00:09:35,85 a commission which would read anything into. OK moving ahead 99 00:09:36,01 --> 00:09:42,31 I did the original comfortless to export to. The. Structure 100 00:09:42,97 --> 00:09:43,10 as 101 00:09:43,11 --> 00:09:49,55 a church that I will be stepping outside for items two and three can but unless it 102 00:09:49,56 --> 00:09:52,46 is the engineer for. Those on. 103 00:09:56,47 --> 00:10:02,81 The other corporations. Can. See. 104 00:10:04,37 --> 00:10:11,16 It here. I don't need. This trouble. Just to 105 00:10:11,17 --> 00:10:15,89 clarify we're talking I mean you record is correct here and we know there's going 106 00:10:15,90 --> 00:10:22,87 to be one that's been pulled from the. Continue to say thank you 107 00:10:23,42 --> 00:10:29,60 letters think it is just your mind that says Casey sixty four you're right and 108 00:10:29,61 --> 00:10:31,77 you're initiated the rezoning R.V. 109 00:10:31,81 --> 00:10:37,02 In the last two months is furnace the largest state stepbrothers and there are five 110 00:10:37,86 --> 00:10:43,09 down can be going from our current president to your district you are one single 111 00:10:43,17 --> 00:10:49,28 family dwelling goes for the fifteen acre property there lies proximity to the 112 00:10:49,29 --> 00:10:54,28 north of self-worth for that street life between southwest gate and south but when 113 00:10:54,41 --> 00:11:00,94 he wrote. The book here proposes forty single theory lots of 114 00:11:01,26 --> 00:11:06,68 city of two point six million units per acre and the salvation with you next on 115 00:11:06,69 --> 00:11:11,21 October eighteenth. That was approved by the city council so it can downsize 116 00:11:11,22 --> 00:11:16,87 a studio and it's just to refresh your memory really the purpose of the earlier era 117 00:11:16,88 --> 00:11:20,55 one county district is to demarcate 118 00:11:20,56 --> 00:11:23,82 a transitional area between urbanized development and 119 00:11:23,83 --> 00:11:30,49 a little arbor which rural areas. Allowing some limited agricultural time uses 120 00:11:30,88 --> 00:11:31,39 once 121 00:11:31,61 --> 00:11:36,26 a subdivision I just was planted here next year using that transitional status and 122 00:11:36,27 --> 00:11:40,51 should be read sound for probably urban zoning classification which is what you're 123 00:11:40,52 --> 00:11:47,44 hearing being asked to be there to marry. The surrounding areas to the north 124 00:11:47,45 --> 00:11:51,83 west and south of there all's not in our one single family going to spirit the 125 00:11:51,84 --> 00:11:56,76 property itself was initially preliminary planted in two thousand and two as Misty 126 00:11:56,77 --> 00:12:02,90 harbors of state subsidies and which is the surrounding developments to the west of 127 00:12:02,91 --> 00:12:07,60 here the rest of the south this is this final plat is based partly that that 128 00:12:07,61 --> 00:12:12,82 division that entire film in fact. He had 129 00:12:12,83 --> 00:12:17,05 a pretty good as it's currently down which is are warning residents over there or 130 00:12:17,45 --> 00:12:22,07 would potentially go out and use it or not accountable with people they only get 131 00:12:22,25 --> 00:12:27,51 their money so it was there and most here permanently is farming an agricultural 132 00:12:27,67 --> 00:12:32,16 use is their office and uses by conditional use for many people and the one that 133 00:12:32,17 --> 00:12:36,47 typically see and this includes me and we neighborhood. Staff is recommending 134 00:12:36,48 --> 00:12:43,40 approval for the very questions we're going to keep. Pushing through the streets. 135 00:12:46,56 --> 00:12:52,64 We've seen this time it's too early to know with which attention to regular. 136 00:12:54,88 --> 00:12:56,83 For the coming to action. 137 00:13:03,53 --> 00:13:10,05 To mean you look from afar the West engineer talking. On behalf of the owner I 138 00:13:10,06 --> 00:13:10,43 don't have 139 00:13:10,44 --> 00:13:17,99 a large presentation on here very questions I'm two or three. And. We 140 00:13:18,00 --> 00:13:23,41 support the staff recommendation for the zoning. And we appreciate their 141 00:13:23,42 --> 00:13:29,84 recommendation. So division plaque coming up next we are in 142 00:13:29,85 --> 00:13:35,90 performance with the city's lane plan that we are here to with the utilities 143 00:13:35,91 --> 00:13:38,43 available. And I think it would be 144 00:13:39,41 --> 00:13:46,23 a good addition to the city. Thank you Mr Cummings. In proportion as for 145 00:13:46,24 --> 00:13:51,36 Mr Claus. I have 146 00:13:51,37 --> 00:13:57,77 a question thank you. OK. From the 147 00:13:57,78 --> 00:14:03,59 discussion of the questions of staff between the stuff. That's at one from the 148 00:14:03,60 --> 00:14:10,47 middle it's the area. Which uses generally what you can actually see the city 149 00:14:10,48 --> 00:14:15,87 it's. So. Natural groove. 150 00:14:19,02 --> 00:14:22,00 For the question of discussion. 151 00:14:26,94 --> 00:14:32,84 So I will I would move that we make them approve the zoning change from our one to 152 00:14:33,49 --> 00:14:37,34 our residential Reserve district to our one single family dwelling District 153 00:14:38,06 --> 00:14:44,57 Commissioner. Most of silicon. So interesting 154 00:14:44,94 --> 00:14:51,19 circa one further discussion. Groups of people. 155 00:14:55,07 --> 00:15:01,55 Mr Woods. History were. Certain are I use Jordan I 156 00:15:01,92 --> 00:15:08,59 Mr Paul Mr Gale I just come on close to the person I use to 157 00:15:08,60 --> 00:15:15,39 Armstrong. Is abstain from the motion passes with 158 00:15:15,40 --> 00:15:21,52 one state. And if you. Can struggle with me to 159 00:15:22,15 --> 00:15:27,92 three it's OK thank you this is the next I do look for you it is 160 00:15:28,04 --> 00:15:32,82 a sign of the final clash for me to see Herbert's estate separators in number five 161 00:15:33,35 --> 00:15:36,12 I'm. Just going to give you 162 00:15:36,13 --> 00:15:41,92 a little background on their farm if we can actually unusually approve this sign of 163 00:15:41,93 --> 00:15:48,91 where. Phase back on January twenty first two thousand and fifteen pounds that 164 00:15:48,92 --> 00:15:55,04 final question ever yet we're on the city council purple. Heart it was delayed by 165 00:15:55,05 --> 00:16:00,45 the outlook area too so it could go to council and it coincided with the Council 166 00:16:00,46 --> 00:16:06,78 for approval of their financing for the fifth Street benefit district. So that 167 00:16:06,79 --> 00:16:13,12 we're bringing in the final plan again community night because after reviewing the 168 00:16:13,38 --> 00:16:18,24 plans for how they're going to face the streets there will be those and determined 169 00:16:18,25 --> 00:16:25,17 that they have all turned their phasing over this final plant so that one 170 00:16:25,18 --> 00:16:26,97 of the streets will be 171 00:16:26,98 --> 00:16:31,41 a temporary area and in excess of five hundred feet which requires 172 00:16:31,42 --> 00:16:37,55 a design variance in planning commissions. And you are so your goal proving to 173 00:16:37,56 --> 00:16:41,80 ninety four when you facing plan for the final question as well as 174 00:16:41,81 --> 00:16:48,68 a variance to the Darien lake then excess of five hundred feet down the. Street 175 00:16:48,69 --> 00:16:55,61 will be extended once they come in the future and build the rest of the locks so 176 00:16:55,62 --> 00:17:02,19 they're OK actually on the forty third Street and it's OK. They still have adequate 177 00:17:02,20 --> 00:17:07,50 turnaround for fire for every movie of the day it is OK with their seasons 178 00:17:07,51 --> 00:17:12,57 acceptable stuff we are able to influence for future use. 179 00:17:19,44 --> 00:17:25,12 So put me in the Senate. Where hearings gone bad from Washington to much more wrong 180 00:17:25,58 --> 00:17:31,06 I don't discuss something the floodplain. Portion of. 181 00:17:33,63 --> 00:17:38,21 There is a theory. Portion probably if you have 182 00:17:38,22 --> 00:17:41,84 a large plane that it is not frightening and there's 183 00:17:42,48 --> 00:17:47,35 a lot they're actually going to be developing that claim for clarity can convey 184 00:17:47,36 --> 00:17:53,09 with inside information. Before looking at that disk. 185 00:17:54,51 --> 00:17:56,82 It's a little funny looks like somebody took 186 00:17:56,83 --> 00:18:02,41 a bite out of the year that they're OK I guess it's an injury that right now cannot 187 00:18:02,42 --> 00:18:09,35 water heat flow. That's been misunderstood most of the troops according 188 00:18:09,36 --> 00:18:15,99 to. OK everyone familiar them with the particulars. Parcel of. 189 00:18:17,58 --> 00:18:24,13 That she's referring to the now we're. Talking to the far right is. 190 00:18:25,39 --> 00:18:27,95 Declining. Just 191 00:18:27,96 --> 00:18:34,91 a minor trainee Fortunately back in the water while the tech been running for 192 00:18:34,95 --> 00:18:40,70 limitations for. A place some limits. 193 00:18:43,28 --> 00:18:48,77 The country any further considerations. It would be up to the responsible. 194 00:18:50,24 --> 00:18:53,78 Property of. Engineers to address it in 195 00:18:53,79 --> 00:19:00,03 a way that if they put. Any further questions for Mr Right. 196 00:19:03,94 --> 00:19:10,79 OK scene and the time allow. For joining with the owner to step forward if they 197 00:19:10,80 --> 00:19:17,70 wish but looks like they feel they've addressed. The US there are questions for 198 00:19:17,71 --> 00:19:21,84 the commissioners to look to the World Cup with me answer. 199 00:19:24,62 --> 00:19:31,35 Any questions of the order of what was. Clearly seen. Any 200 00:19:31,36 --> 00:19:34,12 further discussion. Come. 201 00:19:39,61 --> 00:19:41,88 To the question of competence time and entertain 202 00:19:41,89 --> 00:19:47,75 a motion. To. 203 00:19:48,80 --> 00:19:54,38 Its chairman I I move it to the revised final player to harbor the states of his 204 00:19:54,39 --> 00:20:00,77 number five. And does that include the five hundred four in 205 00:20:00,78 --> 00:20:07,53 variance to the work of the staff that she treated. In 206 00:20:07,82 --> 00:20:14,13 contagion can you. Assure us for the record. 207 00:20:15,29 --> 00:20:19,39 The consensus between you and Mr Wood for this motion. Is there 208 00:20:19,40 --> 00:20:24,06 a second second of your motion second any further discussion. 209 00:20:26,94 --> 00:20:33,44 That. This person I ask about Says I 210 00:20:33,77 --> 00:20:40,36 Mr Gale's Mr Hart I was during I Mr Clean are his ring work 211 00:20:41,33 --> 00:20:46,82 Mr was I don't know if you catch me you know which one I'm standing for you can. 212 00:20:48,87 --> 00:20:55,86 You can. Rely on that you know are these people who put the 213 00:20:55,87 --> 00:20:59,20 kid in with that we're done with the action I don't see 214 00:20:59,21 --> 00:21:04,98 a public hearing or. Two and Three of them will need two hundred and that's one of 215 00:21:05,08 --> 00:21:10,42 the discussion items. In the local in the straw poll to see. 216 00:21:13,85 --> 00:21:16,60 If you know the story. Too. 217 00:21:28,75 --> 00:21:34,82 It is so scary. That. All. 218 00:21:37,22 --> 00:21:43,79 The. Good. They didn't like. 219 00:21:47,54 --> 00:21:54,44 The. Right choice back then 220 00:21:54,45 --> 00:21:58,41 moved to Florida before and. We were. 221 00:22:01,53 --> 00:22:06,68 Stuck with it while he's getting there I'll just interject. 222 00:22:08,62 --> 00:22:13,53 Most of you have seen several reading this will probably be the third cycle of code 223 00:22:13,54 --> 00:22:19,53 amendments we're proposing sort of for the zoning code. So this is relatively 224 00:22:20,47 --> 00:22:24,44 it's a little bit bigger than the other realms because Dan's going to go through 225 00:22:24,76 --> 00:22:30,33 a conversion of seems owing here down down. That's 226 00:22:30,34 --> 00:22:34,39 a little bit larger so we kind of are separate that's separate from the other 227 00:22:34,40 --> 00:22:41,18 cleanup items which might or go over Mr Hall go over after the orders of 228 00:22:41,72 --> 00:22:46,49 the. Right Commissioner Stern MINER This is 229 00:22:46,50 --> 00:22:52,34 a discussion I don't tonight there's no action on this presentation will be 230 00:22:52,35 --> 00:22:58,98 a team process I will present background and design guidelines 231 00:22:59,68 --> 00:23:06,56 Michael talk about signs anyone talk about uses. Start us off though. I 232 00:23:06,57 --> 00:23:10,62 just want to point out some of the outreach efforts that have gone on recently with 233 00:23:10,63 --> 00:23:12,65 this project we convene 234 00:23:12,66 --> 00:23:18,60 a group of local architects on last summer to review the guidelines my commanding 235 00:23:18,75 --> 00:23:25,01 with some sign industry. Folks within the last week and I have to review the sign 236 00:23:25,41 --> 00:23:27,66 on the guidelines also held 237 00:23:27,67 --> 00:23:34,14 a neighborhood information meeting on Nov fourteenth Salon's Monday. We provided 238 00:23:34,15 --> 00:23:35,99 you the notes of that meeting as 239 00:23:36,00 --> 00:23:41,67 a handout and also the hand of that we handed out with wanted for you. 240 00:23:45,06 --> 00:23:49,18 So the first thing I'm going to do is talk about the sort of the what and the why. 241 00:23:50,24 --> 00:23:56,28 And. Get into the rest of the presentation. So just 242 00:23:56,29 --> 00:24:00,08 a little background here the city's initiating an amendment to the regulations that 243 00:24:00,09 --> 00:24:06,17 will convert the existing C five downtown zoning to do you want and eliminate the C 244 00:24:06,18 --> 00:24:12,50 five from the zoning books on both C five and you on our downtown zoning districts 245 00:24:13,18 --> 00:24:17,14 sci fi was created in one thousand nine hundred two the deal on in two thousand and 246 00:24:17,15 --> 00:24:21,62 one of the deal on was created to better encourage mixed use activity downtown 247 00:24:22,33 --> 00:24:25,59 obviously we did not implement Do you want in two thousand one hundred we wouldn't 248 00:24:25,60 --> 00:24:29,89 be talking about it's night but in the interim time there's been some properties 249 00:24:29,90 --> 00:24:35,37 that have reason to do you one. And so do you want is on the books we're not 250 00:24:35,68 --> 00:24:40,08 creating as and zoning district here but we're making some changes to the uses 251 00:24:40,09 --> 00:24:43,62 design guidelines and creating sign standards. 252 00:24:48,67 --> 00:24:53,69 So most of your familiar with the fact that in recent years downtown is seen an 253 00:24:53,73 --> 00:24:58,61 increase in investment and greater overall interest and historic character of the 254 00:24:58,62 --> 00:25:01,98 city and city of Topeka invested five million which is matched by more than two 255 00:25:01,99 --> 00:25:06,32 million and private investment grade streetscape and utility infrastructure along 256 00:25:06,33 --> 00:25:08,34 Kansas Avenue additionally to 257 00:25:08,35 --> 00:25:11,44 a store districts were added to the national risk register in two thousand and 258 00:25:11,45 --> 00:25:15,20 fifteen it's actually three of the two that are referenced here the ones that the 259 00:25:15,21 --> 00:25:20,15 city helped work on and there was another one at eight in Jackson I was at it at 260 00:25:20,16 --> 00:25:25,17 least. Banded in two thousand and fifteen and we also created design guidelines for 261 00:25:25,18 --> 00:25:31,66 the to the store districts this year so what we have now is an elevated design 262 00:25:31,67 --> 00:25:36,65 standard in our historic districts which I'll show you a map here and in 263 00:25:36,66 --> 00:25:43,06 a minute but the historic district is just the portion of the overall C five zone 264 00:25:43,07 --> 00:25:46,98 area so within the historic district we've elevated the design standards to sort of 265 00:25:46,99 --> 00:25:51,04 protect the historic character but outside even across the street where we've got 266 00:25:51,05 --> 00:25:55,35 properties on C five there is no designer view for those properties so my 267 00:25:55,93 --> 00:26:02,74 converting are by. By. Implementing the do you want into 268 00:26:02,75 --> 00:26:06,39 the for replacing the C five with the do you want to bring in long design 269 00:26:06,40 --> 00:26:12,58 guidelines that are compatible with the start character and will help raise the 270 00:26:12,79 --> 00:26:17,26 raise the design standard outside of the. So I touched on this 271 00:26:17,27 --> 00:26:22,74 a little bit with the D one has three components of these matrix and specific use 272 00:26:22,75 --> 00:26:29,15 requirements designed outlines and signs which are actually part of the design 273 00:26:29,16 --> 00:26:36,13 guidelines. A couple mouse here. On the left as part of your one 274 00:26:36,14 --> 00:26:42,03 of the hand outs. That it is the extent of the C five zoning downtown. 275 00:26:43,72 --> 00:26:48,03 So those are the properties that would be zones D one if this project were to be 276 00:26:48,04 --> 00:26:53,49 approved you can see it's basically the core core sort of urban area of downtown 277 00:26:54,29 --> 00:26:58,60 the area that's outlined in blue and them out is the south Kansas Avenue commercial 278 00:26:58,61 --> 00:27:02,93 a store district that's one of the historic districts was talking about so when 279 00:27:02,94 --> 00:27:09,32 we're talking about D one uses the D want to apply is to that entire area that's 280 00:27:10,31 --> 00:27:15,35 shown for C five and we're talking about design guidelines. Would be one does not 281 00:27:15,36 --> 00:27:19,48 apply within that in the area so we've got historic district guidelines that have 282 00:27:19,49 --> 00:27:23,99 been approved within that. Blue that big blue area that will will apply to new 283 00:27:24,03 --> 00:27:28,80 construction or renovations but outside of that blue area the do you want 284 00:27:28,81 --> 00:27:35,70 guidelines will apply. And hopefully this won't confuse you too much but there's 285 00:27:35,71 --> 00:27:42,18 a but there but the sign. Di line standards that are within the De Juan actually do 286 00:27:42,19 --> 00:27:47,34 apply in the blue area as well so. Probably the easiest way to think about it is if 287 00:27:47,35 --> 00:27:47,77 you do have 288 00:27:47,78 --> 00:27:52,27 a sign in that blue area you will look to the historic district guidelines for sort 289 00:27:52,28 --> 00:27:58,88 of. Quality design materials location and you look to the do you want for 290 00:27:58,89 --> 00:28:04,77 size so that the one really has more of the size and the where. Standards in the 291 00:28:04,78 --> 00:28:10,38 historic district design and character and that sort of thing so I will come back 292 00:28:10,39 --> 00:28:15,97 to that again just to make sure that's clear and then the map on the right is the 293 00:28:16,47 --> 00:28:20,33 existing C five zoning and context with the others owing downtown so you can see 294 00:28:20,34 --> 00:28:25,35 a mixture of office and just. Sort of sort of surrounds the C. 295 00:28:25,36 --> 00:28:30,44 Five and so that on and off to any of the talk about uses. 296 00:28:40,98 --> 00:28:47,88 OK And what we kindly did here was primarily just to review the land use matrix and 297 00:28:47,92 --> 00:28:53,92 to make sure these isn't sci fi who are really consistent with what the uses and 298 00:28:53,93 --> 00:28:55,75 the one really consistent with 299 00:28:56,05 --> 00:29:02,68 a sci fi group and as you all know they use matrix categorizing you since as being 300 00:29:02,69 --> 00:29:08,89 allowed to specific use report which is eighteen to twenty five said to require 301 00:29:08,90 --> 00:29:14,52 a conditional use term in or just our I predicted. At the end it's going to women 302 00:29:14,53 --> 00:29:18,40 a the sci fi disappeared from the land use matrix and then all those with 303 00:29:18,74 --> 00:29:19,95 properties that are Zone C. 304 00:29:19,96 --> 00:29:25,99 Five would be converted over to the one. For the most part the uses to do remain 305 00:29:26,00 --> 00:29:27,69 consistent with I'm going to address 306 00:29:27,70 --> 00:29:34,27 a few of the changes that were just that I want to highlight here. The first 307 00:29:35,12 --> 00:29:40,19 we made some clarifications in the specific few standards relating to use which is 308 00:29:40,20 --> 00:29:45,21 growing units on the ground on the main floor that was just what the change was 309 00:29:45,22 --> 00:29:49,74 intended and was intended to do was to encourage just to make sure the excuse 310 00:29:49,75 --> 00:29:55,63 activity is promoted on the ground floor of your buildings downtown it is allowed 311 00:29:55,82 --> 00:29:57,05 septic to N.S. 312 00:29:57,85 --> 00:29:59,07 Which is which were first in 313 00:29:59,08 --> 00:30:04,47 a specific use requirements number two and you know if you have any questions about 314 00:30:04,48 --> 00:30:10,31 any of these they are all the standards are in your package Well tonight. The next 315 00:30:10,63 --> 00:30:16,90 big thing when you address to is establish standards for drive thru drive syllabi 316 00:30:16,91 --> 00:30:17,14 S. 317 00:30:17,66 --> 00:30:24,68 And dry firms are currently permitted in sci fi we created standards mostly 318 00:30:24,69 --> 00:30:29,21 relating to the design and the place in it and where you can put the drive thru the 319 00:30:29,22 --> 00:30:35,51 driver window. Primarily in the estimates period relate to 320 00:30:35,98 --> 00:30:40,34 drive that being to the rear side of the principal building. Secondary and 321 00:30:40,35 --> 00:30:47,29 subordinate to the main building the next thing you ever three surprisingly 322 00:30:47,30 --> 00:30:51,05 a drinking establishment which is your typical bar not 323 00:30:51,06 --> 00:30:54,37 a restaurant but the standard bar requires a C. 324 00:30:54,41 --> 00:31:01,23 Conditional Use permanency five. Weeks are you no intent of encouraging and 325 00:31:01,27 --> 00:31:04,26 promoting downtown as entertainment district we made 326 00:31:04,27 --> 00:31:09,51 a proposal to allow it as allowing by right in the wind so you wouldn't have to 327 00:31:09,52 --> 00:31:10,61 give us U.P.D. To 328 00:31:10,65 --> 00:31:17,42 a bar or attacker. Number four and currently there is 329 00:31:17,43 --> 00:31:23,64 not any provision for having outside display of retail merchandise and the one we 330 00:31:23,68 --> 00:31:30,10 would propose to. Have standards. So then you could have outdoor 331 00:31:30,11 --> 00:31:35,74 display in the wind and set it to those standards we'd be able to do it is 332 00:31:35,75 --> 00:31:42,41 a use that big to standard and what that standard primarily relates to is 333 00:31:42,42 --> 00:31:48,23 allowing enough room for pedestrians to walk by on the street and that the retail 334 00:31:48,24 --> 00:31:54,47 merchandise could only be outside during normal business hours. This thing 335 00:31:55,08 --> 00:31:58,22 really is and I'm not going to really go over this one because I believe you have 336 00:31:58,26 --> 00:32:04,18 seen this before currently microbreweries are allowed but I see in sci fi we are 337 00:32:04,19 --> 00:32:11,17 proposed to allow them study to specific use requirements and be one. And the next 338 00:32:11,23 --> 00:32:17,79 one just to address here or proposing to. Require glitches 339 00:32:17,80 --> 00:32:23,13 assembling too if you want to do a religious symbol in downtown you'd have to get 340 00:32:23,17 --> 00:32:24,40 a P. 341 00:32:24,40 --> 00:32:31,18 . That relates to making sure your store fronts downtown primarily on 342 00:32:31,19 --> 00:32:37,76 Kansas and ave you are. Contained active in uses that are in operation more than 343 00:32:37,77 --> 00:32:44,47 one or two gauge that week. And those are really out of that entire use matrix 344 00:32:44,48 --> 00:32:49,78 those are really the major changes related to the one in C. 345 00:32:49,79 --> 00:32:55,48 Fact districts everything in most of the other uses but as I said they remained 346 00:32:55,49 --> 00:33:02,18 consistent with the one usage remained consistent with sci fi. The 347 00:33:02,19 --> 00:33:07,82 main change here is that sci fi does not have to sign guidelines in the warn that. 348 00:33:14,96 --> 00:33:21,71 You want to pause for any questions up to you Can you. See questions for. 349 00:33:26,69 --> 00:33:32,44 You in the body of the three OK Before we get into the design guidelines we're 350 00:33:32,45 --> 00:33:37,70 going to look at this map again and make sure we understand what we're talking 351 00:33:37,71 --> 00:33:40,90 about here. So it's not on the left 352 00:33:40,91 --> 00:33:45,41 a map in your hand so the deal is that we're going to get I'm going to talk about 353 00:33:45,98 --> 00:33:52,04 only apply to the area outside of that big blue area on that matter. What Mike is 354 00:33:52,05 --> 00:33:57,49 going to talk to you about or the sign standards those will actually apply in the 355 00:33:57,50 --> 00:34:04,09 area so what I'm talking about as far as you know new construction or. 356 00:34:06,09 --> 00:34:12,64 Renovation and it's only those projects that are outside of that that area so 357 00:34:12,100 --> 00:34:16,77 basically the purpose of the guidelines is to provide the regular thirty years that 358 00:34:16,85 --> 00:34:22,07 the regulatory authority to ensure new construction renovation is consistent with 359 00:34:22,08 --> 00:34:25,67 the established urban form of downtown and really the key points there's new 360 00:34:25,68 --> 00:34:29,69 construction around of the nation are not going to apply design guidelines to 361 00:34:29,70 --> 00:34:32,17 projects that once a swap out of 362 00:34:32,69 --> 00:34:36,68 a retail use for retail use and don't change the property of the building that's 363 00:34:36,69 --> 00:34:42,24 not what the guidelines are for it's for changes to properties. Or structures. I'm 364 00:34:42,24 --> 00:34:49,19 . Going to touch on basically three. Three highlights of the guidelines there's 365 00:34:49,20 --> 00:34:54,76 obviously more in there than just these items but these are the ones who are least 366 00:34:54,77 --> 00:35:01,10 the first two that were kind of mention of. The public meeting we had on Monday. So 367 00:35:01,11 --> 00:35:05,65 the first one of the street orientation is guidelines basically they say the 368 00:35:05,66 --> 00:35:10,02 buildings should be built up to the front and to the sidewalks and the front they 369 00:35:10,03 --> 00:35:11,45 should maintain 370 00:35:11,46 --> 00:35:17,71 a. Consistent street wall with the buildings that are on either side of it there 371 00:35:17,72 --> 00:35:17,85 was 372 00:35:17,86 --> 00:35:23,33 a comment about. You know if we can gain you know if we said buildings back we can 373 00:35:23,34 --> 00:35:23,54 gain 374 00:35:23,55 --> 00:35:30,38 a little more. Public space from the sidewalk. You know my my 375 00:35:30,39 --> 00:35:35,32 response was basically that this particular guideline is probably one of the more 376 00:35:35,33 --> 00:35:40,89 important ones that we have designing both C five and do you want zoning have zero 377 00:35:40,90 --> 00:35:47,88 front set backs so the zoning is from encouraging buildings to fill the lots. You 378 00:35:47,89 --> 00:35:54,64 know the we have fairly wide sidewalks we do permits outside dining 379 00:35:54,77 --> 00:36:00,99 on in our street in our sidewalks Eric sidewalk areas so again this is really 380 00:36:01,15 --> 00:36:06,06 probably one of the more important. Standards that we have in our urban downtown is 381 00:36:06,07 --> 00:36:11,11 to maintain that that street law. We don't have a slide but 382 00:36:11,12 --> 00:36:17,02 a question came up about balconies and having balconies on buildings that you know 383 00:36:17,03 --> 00:36:23,27 what hang over the sidewalk basically. The guidelines as they're proposed don't 384 00:36:23,28 --> 00:36:28,65 preclude balconies and do you want they do say they do that he says are written out 385 00:36:28,66 --> 00:36:34,75 to say if you have supports that are going to extend down into the the sidewalk 386 00:36:34,79 --> 00:36:35,60 from that now can 387 00:36:35,61 --> 00:36:40,36 e into the right away that that is not appropriate and that's the. Not the 388 00:36:40,37 --> 00:36:46,98 character of because downtown is to have that kind of situation. You know we also 389 00:36:46,99 --> 00:36:51,54 talked about at that meeting there's ways to design buildings so that you have. You 390 00:36:51,55 --> 00:36:56,75 know at least on your second or third center third stories you can bring the 391 00:36:56,76 --> 00:37:00,08 outside in by having We have an example on campus Avenue 392 00:37:00,27 --> 00:37:01,98 a new info building that has essentially 393 00:37:01,99 --> 00:37:07,18 a wall of windows on the second and third floor that can open completely and 394 00:37:07,22 --> 00:37:10,61 basically bring that inside there bring the outside into the buildings and that's 395 00:37:10,62 --> 00:37:17,12 a way to have your outdoor space slash indoor space without having balconies as an 396 00:37:17,13 --> 00:37:23,62 example. And finally. Talk about architecture in 397 00:37:23,63 --> 00:37:28,49 context I think this is kind of important to the new construction and you want is 398 00:37:28,50 --> 00:37:33,31 not required to implement any particular architectural style we have here 399 00:37:33,32 --> 00:37:38,11 a wide ranging styles of buildings downtown from eight hundred eighty S. 400 00:37:38,12 --> 00:37:43,41 Through mid century modern up to today so the guidelines do not promote any 401 00:37:43,42 --> 00:37:46,32 particular architectural style they're not saying you have to build eight hundred 402 00:37:46,33 --> 00:37:50,89 eighty S. Storefronts now with new construction basically saying that 403 00:37:50,90 --> 00:37:55,24 a new construction should be compatible with the scale for materials of surrounding 404 00:37:55,25 --> 00:38:01,43 structures so basically responding to the context of the of. The surrounding 405 00:38:01,44 --> 00:38:03,87 architecture but not pinning it to 406 00:38:03,88 --> 00:38:10,41 a particular style. So that's guidelines any questions 407 00:38:10,61 --> 00:38:16,67 concerns. OK. 408 00:38:21,75 --> 00:38:28,61 OK guys. As Dan mentioned. The sign industry can 409 00:38:28,62 --> 00:38:35,57 be very small can be for poor people. In design is free and 410 00:38:35,61 --> 00:38:39,86 is his goal is having the real information meaning the one person are all. If 411 00:38:39,87 --> 00:38:40,55 tonight is 412 00:38:40,56 --> 00:38:44,40 a member of that side of history committee and if there are specific technical 413 00:38:44,41 --> 00:38:48,36 questions she might Bill answer those I want to put on the spot Virginia 414 00:38:48,37 --> 00:38:53,98 Baumgartner as been very helpful very much appreciate your time on this so the 415 00:38:53,99 --> 00:38:59,93 purpose of the. Guidelines is to provide for science of procuring traditional 416 00:38:59,94 --> 00:39:04,39 downtown environment and to encourage reasonable standards that balance community 417 00:39:04,40 --> 00:39:08,33 objectives with the needs of businesses and the general public to reduce visual 418 00:39:08,34 --> 00:39:13,52 clutter current science compatible surroundings and to enhance safety keeping in 419 00:39:13,53 --> 00:39:18,18 mind that absent the adoption these design the site guidelines if we didn't make 420 00:39:18,19 --> 00:39:24,97 any change we would be reliant on the standards that are specific to the C five 421 00:39:24,98 --> 00:39:27,95 district and those are very similar. 422 00:39:32,45 --> 00:39:36,69 By the way these are our pages twenty three and twenty three twenty four year 423 00:39:36,70 --> 00:39:43,15 packet. Of the design guidelines. 424 00:39:48,44 --> 00:39:54,98 To be sure you get there so. Where was so absent adoption of signed 425 00:39:55,10 --> 00:40:00,37 guidelines for the for the one described. In absent anything else would be reliant 426 00:40:00,38 --> 00:40:03,48 on the sun science standards for the C. Five the C. 427 00:40:03,49 --> 00:40:10,47 Five sign. Standards are basically the same as the science 428 00:40:10,48 --> 00:40:15,100 standards for. The general commercial zone your have your commercial sewing like C. 429 00:40:16,01 --> 00:40:22,75 For the present for if you think from WANT TO maker six that sixth Ave those 430 00:40:22,76 --> 00:40:28,54 streets so it's really important to have signed standards that are appropriate to 431 00:40:28,55 --> 00:40:30,88 the setting that's really why this is so important. 432 00:40:35,17 --> 00:40:40,42 So in the sign guidelines types of signs are permitted are wall signs. Canopies 433 00:40:40,43 --> 00:40:45,00 mornings more keys projecting signs freestanding signs roof signs and electronic 434 00:40:45,01 --> 00:40:51,92 message centers so the standards for wall signs wall signs are permitted 435 00:40:51,93 --> 00:40:57,43 on the first floor there's no limit to the number of wall signs. But they are 436 00:40:57,44 --> 00:41:01,64 limited on an allocation basis so twenty percent of the exterior wall of the first 437 00:41:01,65 --> 00:41:06,92 floor. Is the limit on the area of wall signs that keeps trying not to exceed one 438 00:41:06,93 --> 00:41:13,73 hundred fifty square feet. So it's above the first floor we'll get to in 439 00:41:13,74 --> 00:41:20,64 a few minutes but limited in number limited in size so as I can because no 440 00:41:20,65 --> 00:41:24,43 one is in more keys they're regulated either as 441 00:41:24,44 --> 00:41:27,29 a wall sign in terms of the area or as 442 00:41:27,30 --> 00:41:31,89 a projecting sign depending on the angle of the sign relative to the face of the 443 00:41:31,90 --> 00:41:34,72 building so if the if you see 444 00:41:34,73 --> 00:41:40,44 a canopy Campion's of course all projection that goes out on the sidewalk if the 445 00:41:40,45 --> 00:41:44,69 face of the canopy has a sign on it that would be treated like it would like 446 00:41:44,70 --> 00:41:50,53 a wall sign would be treated in terms of size limitations if the if this sign is on 447 00:41:50,54 --> 00:41:54,19 the part of the canopy that faces oncoming pedestrian traffic so 448 00:41:54,20 --> 00:41:58,21 a right angle to the face of the building there will be treated like projecting 449 00:41:58,22 --> 00:42:05,21 sign terms of sun angle and terms of size from the tissues. Projecting sides 450 00:42:06,03 --> 00:42:12,11 projecting signs are limited to ten percent of the area of the first floor in one 451 00:42:12,12 --> 00:42:18,74 per stablish minute and. No larger than seventy five square feet of new case. 452 00:42:20,07 --> 00:42:26,84 Free standing signs also known as ground signs as proposed and limited to ten feet 453 00:42:27,22 --> 00:42:34,15 the limit of one huge an area not to exceed one half square foot per lineal foot 454 00:42:35,04 --> 00:42:39,57 not to exceed. The two. 455 00:42:42,72 --> 00:42:49,13 But fifty thousand square feet in the case. Andrew signs are 456 00:42:49,14 --> 00:42:54,49 permitted not to exceed three hundred square feet one roof sign prevailing 457 00:42:55,41 --> 00:43:01,78 buildings over three three floors only and trunk message centers pretty basically 458 00:43:01,79 --> 00:43:06,83 the same or as they are in other districts half the allocation for 459 00:43:07,32 --> 00:43:10,54 a wall sign could be used as an E.M.C. 460 00:43:11,15 --> 00:43:18,02 Truck message center so the comments that we received from stakeholders mainly 461 00:43:18,03 --> 00:43:23,15 at the Neighborhood Commission member also with our discussion with Sun industry 462 00:43:23,19 --> 00:43:29,97 folks. That dressed. Wall 463 00:43:29,98 --> 00:43:35,64 signs above the first floor basically the feedback was too restrictive for major 464 00:43:35,65 --> 00:43:41,45 tenets and large buildings as proposed. Ground signs standards to restrict. 465 00:43:43,03 --> 00:43:48,38 Mainly because of height and size and especially considering the existing signs 466 00:43:48,39 --> 00:43:52,82 that are pretty large and need to replace the signs in the future and we didn't 467 00:43:52,83 --> 00:43:58,24 make the provision specifically famous for murals in the sign guidelines and so the 468 00:43:58,25 --> 00:44:02,70 feedback we got was that we should because your roles or appropriate thing for 469 00:44:02,71 --> 00:44:09,54 downtown Vironment just because you say appropriate and they are approach they 470 00:44:09,55 --> 00:44:15,49 are appropriate they are operating downtown for the common I don't know sort of 471 00:44:15,50 --> 00:44:20,44 discourage that but that was the feedback we got you know me from the show these 472 00:44:20,45 --> 00:44:25,08 a little bit more detail in minutes some of the other comments we got. Is the name 473 00:44:25,09 --> 00:44:29,98 of the building consider a wall sign of some of the older buildings might have 474 00:44:29,99 --> 00:44:36,61 a name on the top and it might be. A car in relief in the material of the building 475 00:44:36,62 --> 00:44:37,23 in some cases 476 00:44:37,24 --> 00:44:42,41 a separate sign good question we didn't really address that specifically but I 477 00:44:42,42 --> 00:44:46,23 think it does need to be addressed clarification of marquis vs can't be in the 478 00:44:46,24 --> 00:44:51,88 window size. Could be anything in time became 479 00:44:51,89 --> 00:44:55,97 a question about something please speak out normally Catherine answer to this like 480 00:44:55,98 --> 00:45:02,05 him so. Wall signs on one fours above the first floor. 481 00:45:03,23 --> 00:45:06,87 So as proposed. On 482 00:45:06,88 --> 00:45:13,34 a building that is three stories or less. You're allowed to have one sign on the 483 00:45:13,35 --> 00:45:14,91 face on the side of 484 00:45:14,92 --> 00:45:21,63 a building. And one person died not to exceed one hundred fifty square feet as 485 00:45:21,64 --> 00:45:27,85 proposed. And if the building let's say a building is six stories you could have 486 00:45:28,13 --> 00:45:33,05 a sign on levels two two through three and 487 00:45:33,06 --> 00:45:39,74 a sign above that. These these buildings are examples of signs above the first 488 00:45:39,75 --> 00:45:42,51 level that are already in Kansas that. 489 00:45:46,29 --> 00:45:52,71 So for buildings with more than three floors as proposed you can have 490 00:45:52,72 --> 00:45:57,96 a building above the third floor one wall sign three or square foot maximum in 491 00:45:57,97 --> 00:46:04,65 addition to the sign that you're allowed to have one force two and three. These 492 00:46:04,99 --> 00:46:09,89 this building on the left is I believe four stories at least four stories in height 493 00:46:10,58 --> 00:46:15,36 the building on the right is much more much taller than that probably ten stories. 494 00:46:17,39 --> 00:46:22,49 The West or energy sign not become my star. But the Western Energy sign I believe 495 00:46:22,50 --> 00:46:26,94 is three hundred square feet of believe the research that we looked at the permit 496 00:46:27,16 --> 00:46:33,90 three or square feet. So the comment was. Whether 497 00:46:34,30 --> 00:46:40,40 we should. Allow more than one sign per level or one sign. 498 00:46:41,43 --> 00:46:47,93 More more signs were permitted one of the observations populations made by this by 499 00:46:47,94 --> 00:46:52,13 the participants in our Information me was that you could have 500 00:46:52,14 --> 00:46:57,71 a small building that only fifty feet wide which are pretty common. I think we even 501 00:46:57,72 --> 00:47:02,48 have some buildings are twenty five feet wide and you're allowed one sign above the 502 00:47:02,49 --> 00:47:07,49 first level the say of a three story building. There are 503 00:47:07,50 --> 00:47:09,64 a lot of money side about the first level you can have 504 00:47:09,65 --> 00:47:14,02 a building that's one hundred. Hundred feet wide one hundred feet in front of you 505 00:47:14,03 --> 00:47:21,00 and has proposed your loved one sign above the first mile. And comment was that 506 00:47:21,39 --> 00:47:22,00 if there is 507 00:47:22,01 --> 00:47:27,21 a major tenant that the building is trying to attract they might demand that they 508 00:47:27,22 --> 00:47:27,47 have 509 00:47:27,85 --> 00:47:34,34 a sign on the House of Bill and. So monument something 510 00:47:34,55 --> 00:47:39,87 freestanding signs as proposed in the standers one minute sign priest three maximum 511 00:47:39,93 --> 00:47:44,56 a half square foot per lineal foot not to exceed fifty square feet so what that 512 00:47:44,60 --> 00:47:50,75 with says that's saying is that if you have. If you have fifty feet of frontage on 513 00:47:50,76 --> 00:47:55,91 a street your sign cannot exceed twenty five square feet if you have hundred fifty 514 00:47:55,92 --> 00:48:00,73 different your sign cannot exceed fifty square feet. Put maximum height in 515 00:48:00,74 --> 00:48:05,24 a minute this type of sign that the sign on the right that photo is 516 00:48:05,25 --> 00:48:11,29 a monument sign. That sign that particular sign estimated height is five feet 517 00:48:11,33 --> 00:48:17,32 estimate sizes for forty square feet. So here are some examples of 518 00:48:17,98 --> 00:48:24,10 trouble guess which question. Is have some guidelines and turn on something. 519 00:48:25,94 --> 00:48:31,16 For example so obviously place of something that size right sidewalk that's in 520 00:48:31,17 --> 00:48:37,68 front of your building so as hers you know for sure there are other there's other 521 00:48:37,69 --> 00:48:40,65 language in our code that prohibits the placement of 522 00:48:40,66 --> 00:48:45,46 a sign in the right of way in the street right of way but no set backs are proposed 523 00:48:45,87 --> 00:48:52,21 some setbacks will be necessary. To avoid traffic conflicts so you wouldn't have 524 00:48:52,22 --> 00:48:58,68 a sign located right at an intersection type thing so these are some examples of 525 00:48:58,72 --> 00:49:03,79 free standing signs this sign is located outside the Historic District sixteen men 526 00:49:03,80 --> 00:49:09,13 beer and that's probably I would say that's about twenty feet tall maybe fifteen or 527 00:49:09,14 --> 00:49:15,40 eighteen feet tall and I. Sure the size maybe forty square feet. This sign was 528 00:49:15,41 --> 00:49:19,22 specifically mentioned in the information meeting this is it that the B.P. 529 00:49:19,23 --> 00:49:25,42 Gas convenience store this sign is about twenty seven feet tall we have 530 00:49:25,43 --> 00:49:26,41 a record of 531 00:49:26,42 --> 00:49:31,47 a permit that was issued it was twenty seven feet was not long ago. And I can't 532 00:49:31,48 --> 00:49:37,06 move this is I have it written down I think it's I think it's forty square feet. 533 00:49:39,04 --> 00:49:40,58 You know excuse me it's one hundred twenty feet. 534 00:49:46,70 --> 00:49:47,40 So this is 535 00:49:47,41 --> 00:49:54,22 a sign for the Ramada downtown that sign is estimated to be. Thirty five or 536 00:49:54,23 --> 00:49:55,62 forty feet tall it could be 537 00:49:55,63 --> 00:50:01,30 a little taller I'm not really sure. The size of the sign I know of it quite cool I 538 00:50:01,31 --> 00:50:06,16 could leave it to the to sign cabinets together exceed three hundred square feet. 539 00:50:08,58 --> 00:50:13,07 If you can see where that's located and that that is in that's already zoned if 540 00:50:13,08 --> 00:50:20,01 there is only one OK. Ok so many questions about freestanding 541 00:50:20,02 --> 00:50:26,48 signs mind signs. I wouldn't touch on the. The mural signs 542 00:50:26,93 --> 00:50:32,86 these photos are not from Topeka these are from Omaha. And one of the participants 543 00:50:32,87 --> 00:50:39,87 of the meeting sent these to me these are examples of. Murals. I think the best 544 00:50:39,88 --> 00:50:44,83 way to address this if we were to accommodate these in our guidelines would be to 545 00:50:45,19 --> 00:50:45,95 get defined in 546 00:50:45,96 --> 00:50:50,51 a certain way so that they wouldn't be confused with other types of wall signs 547 00:50:50,87 --> 00:50:54,26 because an absence of this would probably be a wall sign but but I think there's 548 00:50:54,27 --> 00:50:56,38 a way to do this I think that it just becomes 549 00:50:56,39 --> 00:51:00,46 a question do you want to allow them on any side even well into cover one hundred 550 00:51:00,47 --> 00:51:04,67 percent of the side of the building or eighty percent is should have resigned 551 00:51:04,68 --> 00:51:09,24 limitation. And we haven't gotten 552 00:51:09,25 --> 00:51:14,15 a lot of feedback about these except from one individual mainly so I'd be 553 00:51:14,16 --> 00:51:20,51 interested in what the Planning Commission thinks about neurons. So if there's any 554 00:51:21,14 --> 00:51:26,34 thoughts. I think it's 555 00:51:26,35 --> 00:51:33,27 a good thing to least establish some type of size review board. In the 556 00:51:33,28 --> 00:51:39,24 context that it can't be bigger than something can't be there but maybe there's. 557 00:51:40,29 --> 00:51:46,84 One level of scrutiny for the bureau or the signing of I think there are moral 558 00:51:47,25 --> 00:51:50,44 sorry. But I think if you have 559 00:51:50,49 --> 00:51:57,19 a certain size that it's allowed with some type of simplified view as one thing 560 00:51:57,82 --> 00:52:01,72 what's the one story it's worth some sort once of the exceeds 561 00:52:01,73 --> 00:52:08,54 a certain height the search for Egypt requires the context to do it you know that 562 00:52:08,55 --> 00:52:13,89 point maybe you could put people in porch commission because the. Impact of 563 00:52:14,06 --> 00:52:20,27 something. I think. Example you give there will be one that most people would 564 00:52:20,42 --> 00:52:27,38 favorably. Submit to. You Because picture three Another issue or something I 565 00:52:27,39 --> 00:52:32,11 think it's one of those kind of character creating type of elements in 566 00:52:32,12 --> 00:52:38,23 a downtown area that people tend to look favorably upon so it's my two cents worth 567 00:52:38,51 --> 00:52:44,66 having been involved in this school teacher the. Other thoughts from the 568 00:52:44,67 --> 00:52:50,92 commissioners in the country. Actually I have direct opposite response 569 00:52:51,62 --> 00:52:57,34 that says the giant sign to me. If you push or get into it 570 00:52:58,25 --> 00:53:05,06 there is. To me some reason to differentiate you from any one any other 571 00:53:05,07 --> 00:53:10,02 form cited simply convey sign information is 572 00:53:10,03 --> 00:53:16,95 a sign if someone with. You can i guess you know that that doesn't exist and 573 00:53:16,96 --> 00:53:23,50 hasn't since the twenty's Well that is or. So when I saw others so that's 574 00:53:23,51 --> 00:53:28,27 a great point Mr Armstrong Mr can or I think there are some contextual component in 575 00:53:28,28 --> 00:53:29,71 this case let's make 576 00:53:29,72 --> 00:53:34,43 a judgment here let's say this is historical What you don't know we're doing with 577 00:53:34,44 --> 00:53:37,98 what we do in this is something that was painted in the one nine hundred twenty S. 578 00:53:38,41 --> 00:53:42,49 It could be perceived because the company the longer exists it is kind of looked 579 00:53:42,50 --> 00:53:47,56 upon now and something like or in lieu of the building is occupied by the ball 580 00:53:47,57 --> 00:53:53,26 Myron company and they decide among together they want to paint that wall to look 581 00:53:53,27 --> 00:53:56,54 like in one thousand nine hundred nine that might get reviewed 582 00:53:56,55 --> 00:54:02,41 a little differently than say something that is an artifact that's been. Prepared 583 00:54:02,67 --> 00:54:09,46 to work with any you. Can see. Double 584 00:54:09,47 --> 00:54:16,37 billing There you go. Yeah it's painted on which I think it's 585 00:54:16,38 --> 00:54:21,47 a good. Good observation I think Mr canards point that we have to be careful not to 586 00:54:21,48 --> 00:54:22,06 just create 587 00:54:22,67 --> 00:54:26,95 a box that as long as it fits in there that wanted to OK here we think that there 588 00:54:26,96 --> 00:54:33,32 might be some type of precedence that it is it's. We're minutes ahead of the 589 00:54:33,33 --> 00:54:34,75 historical So I'm sure it's 590 00:54:34,76 --> 00:54:41,63 a piece for that is that the other people for once but to allow all or just 591 00:54:41,67 --> 00:54:44,84 a side of the building to be painted to represent 592 00:54:44,85 --> 00:54:51,52 a gold star in that context to it might require. Further scrutiny admitting that 593 00:54:51,61 --> 00:54:55,51 part of what people hate that's what will work commission to actually have some 594 00:54:55,52 --> 00:55:01,86 additional criteria that puts it. So it's richer and there are there are large 595 00:55:01,90 --> 00:55:07,83 areas in the one there is in this historic district others are not one of the 596 00:55:07,84 --> 00:55:14,01 challenges also is. It's very difficult to regulate the content of the sign. 597 00:55:15,03 --> 00:55:21,10 Within within kind of the legal limitations that we have regulating sign content 598 00:55:21,76 --> 00:55:28,75 so. You know an extreme example would some could if let's say we allowed murals 599 00:55:29,44 --> 00:55:35,48 it would be hard to turn something down deny something disapprove something on the 600 00:55:35,49 --> 00:55:36,18 basis of 601 00:55:36,19 --> 00:55:42,57 a sign being very. Ugly for life or there were. Just. 602 00:55:43,72 --> 00:55:49,54 There so that you know we get into the side you or I think that's where. The I 603 00:55:49,55 --> 00:55:50,59 concur you know I mean there's 604 00:55:50,60 --> 00:55:54,84 a freedom of speech there to whatever but I think that's were we just simply look 605 00:55:54,85 --> 00:56:00,76 at it back of something if if in this case that was originally there they've simply 606 00:56:00,85 --> 00:56:05,79 repainted the original lettering upside going to print to historically that we're 607 00:56:05,80 --> 00:56:09,82 going to them or allow them to do something and they restored it to its original 608 00:56:09,87 --> 00:56:16,69 book. I'm guessing that it will be something that wouldn't walk because they can. 609 00:56:16,72 --> 00:56:22,31 It's the form it's done right to Mr George forty if they come along or they decide 610 00:56:22,64 --> 00:56:25,60 we're going to put signs up there because that's our company what it wanted to see 611 00:56:25,61 --> 00:56:30,64 it I think it probably should be reviewed can textually like we do any other song 612 00:56:31,32 --> 00:56:34,69 we're going to pay to do because the song it becomes 613 00:56:34,70 --> 00:56:40,80 a new place inside as opposed to a historical signed it's now simply 614 00:56:40,81 --> 00:56:44,47 a piece of art because it doesn't represent an existing company it's just simply 615 00:56:45,10 --> 00:56:50,87 what is there are no other laws being broken by the content but. I think there's 616 00:56:50,88 --> 00:56:55,18 obviously an opportunity in there to be you know yes and you know what I'm saying 617 00:56:55,24 --> 00:57:01,74 is that yes will allows any of you to forgive or you to do this kind of the. Kind 618 00:57:01,75 --> 00:57:06,19 of the best of both worlds approach but not just arbitrarily and allow everything 619 00:57:06,20 --> 00:57:12,81 to happen would be an advocate for good. Preserving the best stuff. 620 00:57:14,72 --> 00:57:19,71 Perhaps there's all kinds of complex things think about. The state have 621 00:57:19,72 --> 00:57:26,18 a storefront twenty five feet you can. You know sign that size between like 622 00:57:26,49 --> 00:57:32,64 twenty five feet or so great. People or situations down right. 623 00:57:37,16 --> 00:57:44,10 Thank you so. Just overall. We've been thinking about 624 00:57:44,11 --> 00:57:49,58 how to respond to some of these some of these issues and I think we have some 625 00:57:49,59 --> 00:57:54,91 thoughts about how to do that staff and we can bring those back when we present 626 00:57:54,92 --> 00:58:01,31 this whole thing for for action. On. 627 00:58:03,32 --> 00:58:05,60 The for books or concert commission. 628 00:58:13,72 --> 00:58:16,64 OK. Just 629 00:58:16,65 --> 00:58:22,14 a little bit left here. So the schedule of you to bring this work for 630 00:58:22,15 --> 00:58:28,57 a public hearing on January twenty third. You're going to Landmarks Commission. 631 00:58:29,91 --> 00:58:36,59 In the summer to talk about it they obviously have. Authority over zoning 632 00:58:36,60 --> 00:58:40,57 changes in the historic district. Little might be making 633 00:58:40,58 --> 00:58:45,79 a recommendation to the plank commission. Return or make some revisions post 634 00:58:45,83 --> 00:58:52,35 a new draft. Obviously in advance of that meeting open way and 635 00:58:53,28 --> 00:59:00,13 come back and. So before we move on to the next item or 636 00:59:00,20 --> 00:59:05,13 is there anything else. For all or part or to this. 637 00:59:12,86 --> 00:59:17,24 Senior hesitation I think that is in the English or searching for words I would 638 00:59:17,25 --> 00:59:18,32 just want to give the commission 639 00:59:18,67 --> 00:59:23,71 a few minutes for any other thoughts or concerns here that we are not going to. 640 00:59:25,20 --> 00:59:26,02 Take in 641 00:59:26,03 --> 00:59:31,28 a direction beyond where there isn't any look at least get some feedback for them 642 00:59:31,73 --> 00:59:32,32 either we talked 643 00:59:32,33 --> 00:59:36,14 a little bit about Sun or any other things that were reviewed here that you have 644 00:59:36,15 --> 00:59:37,70 observations are concerned about. 645 00:59:42,86 --> 00:59:47,89 I just want to disclose I I have property in this particular area and I had this on 646 00:59:47,90 --> 00:59:52,50 or either asked to be part of the discussion and for me so the guidelines and I 647 00:59:52,51 --> 00:59:59,42 feel. The other set of the commission were very thoughtful in their concerns and to 648 00:59:59,43 --> 01:00:04,58 all the various parties to get to spaded all the presentations they had and the 649 01:00:04,59 --> 01:00:09,27 events and where we had discussions and kind of get it out. A lot 650 01:00:09,46 --> 01:00:15,60 a lot of the various challenges that come with change in existing zone area to 651 01:00:15,61 --> 01:00:22,10 a Pacific new. Area by my personal observation that 652 01:00:22,15 --> 01:00:28,71 emphasizing on that first four that we. Encourage more retail 653 01:00:28,95 --> 01:00:34,63 industry and restaurant you know activity type use in the D one district is good 654 01:00:34,64 --> 01:00:40,47 for downtown and I think that my compliments to the staff for ensuring that the 655 01:00:40,60 --> 01:00:45,91 property rights would be respected and that. People aren't being forced to change 656 01:00:45,92 --> 01:00:50,23 something overnight if they currently have office space in that area right now if 657 01:00:51,05 --> 01:00:54,43 that person moves out of they make some minor changes they can still continue to 658 01:00:54,44 --> 01:00:59,46 have office space as long as can textually there within the kind of guidelines that 659 01:01:00,30 --> 01:01:04,13 you guys have administratively always kind of looked at these with so I appreciate 660 01:01:04,14 --> 01:01:08,72 that but I do think in the long run that it's future development is considered in 661 01:01:08,97 --> 01:01:13,82 the downtown continues to grow and hopefully successfully become 662 01:01:14,42 --> 01:01:20,47 a bigger economic engine in our community these will kind of help encourage. Its 663 01:01:20,51 --> 01:01:25,47 long term preservation and its long term consistent kind of economic growth not. 664 01:01:26,52 --> 01:01:32,07 The big given flows we've suffered downtown in the past so I know the landmarks 665 01:01:32,08 --> 01:01:35,09 commission has been very thoughtful about how they've reviewed some of the 666 01:01:35,10 --> 01:01:38,34 challenges that come before them and it seems like every one of them is different 667 01:01:38,35 --> 01:01:44,96 that has new criteria this in conjunction with it I think it will indeed as well as 668 01:01:44,97 --> 01:01:50,92 we could hope it works so. I pretty all the effort you guys have put into it this 669 01:01:50,93 --> 01:01:55,14 didn't happen overnight and I think we've met dozen times over the last year and 670 01:01:55,15 --> 01:02:00,80 a half or so. And you can see obviously with the variations I'm able to shove it 671 01:02:00,81 --> 01:02:01,78 that it's it's taken 672 01:02:01,79 --> 01:02:08,47 a lot of considerations away appreciate everything. If you have any other 673 01:02:09,27 --> 01:02:15,84 any other cultural products. Seen. I'm going to 674 01:02:15,92 --> 01:02:20,09 proceed to. Discussion right. Too. 675 01:02:50,30 --> 01:02:57,06 Thank you. Dave so. In 676 01:02:57,07 --> 01:03:00,84 your music for the group a group B. An hour of Group C. 677 01:03:01,49 --> 01:03:06,46 Of these miscellaneous amendments to sections of the code so. 678 01:03:08,37 --> 01:03:14,91 It could be. There or soon after presenting those we made some 679 01:03:14,92 --> 01:03:20,74 observations ourselves and staff arson in any fashion was presented and we have 680 01:03:20,75 --> 01:03:27,53 simplified that and this basically artist manufacturing if you think of someone who 681 01:03:27,54 --> 01:03:32,20 makes. I used to know someone arose from where it was 682 01:03:32,27 --> 01:03:35,49 a business that made jams and jellies out of a small space that's that's 683 01:03:35,50 --> 01:03:42,39 a typical person manufacturing type use so new manufacturers wouldn't touch wooden 684 01:03:42,40 --> 01:03:43,00 toys on 685 01:03:43,01 --> 01:03:48,60 a small scale have it tipped over manufacturing type use so what is being proposed 686 01:03:48,92 --> 01:03:53,54 is that. On a reduced scale of 687 01:03:53,55 --> 01:03:59,07 a certain type of light manufacturing would be allowed in certain zoning districts 688 01:03:59,59 --> 01:04:05,96 that were today the only way we can treat it is as manufacturing. The reason we 689 01:04:05,97 --> 01:04:12,32 would do this is because there are many areas older areas of Topeka where it's 690 01:04:12,33 --> 01:04:13,17 a great way to view 691 01:04:13,41 --> 01:04:17,70 a building and add some vibrancy to an area no two comes to mind and even parts of 692 01:04:17,70 --> 01:04:24,41 . The main part of downtown are the princes of downtown. Cargo 693 01:04:24,42 --> 01:04:25,86 containers I'm going to explain in 694 01:04:25,87 --> 01:04:31,01 a little more detail that was also discussed earlier meeting and we've made some 695 01:04:31,19 --> 01:04:36,11 revisions to that that we think are our positive fences I want to discuss that in 696 01:04:36,12 --> 01:04:42,93 detail. The possibility of mixed use districts just quickly. Currently 697 01:04:43,39 --> 01:04:44,32 we have the X. 698 01:04:44,33 --> 01:04:50,96 Districts in excuse districts and the the way. The chapter is is 699 01:04:51,01 --> 01:04:56,40 framed that those are only appropriate to be implemented traditional neighborhoods 700 01:04:56,40 --> 01:05:02,01 . The way that's been done is when there's a neighborhood plan that has been 701 01:05:02,40 --> 01:05:07,25 a way to implement the neighborhood plan to apply some kind of zoning that allows. 702 01:05:08,47 --> 01:05:08,83 A mix 703 01:05:08,87 --> 01:05:15,21 a mix of uses commercial residential but based on performance objectives so its 704 01:05:15,22 --> 01:05:20,85 base its roots of performance oriented zoning district. This would allow them to be 705 01:05:21,12 --> 01:05:25,81 used in areas that are designated as an excuse on the future land use map that's 706 01:05:25,82 --> 01:05:28,99 part of the land use and growth management plan it's good we implement 707 01:05:29,36 --> 01:05:32,44 a mix of uses and without having to do 708 01:05:32,45 --> 01:05:39,24 a plan you development. Condition of signs I have one slide on that that's 709 01:05:39,59 --> 01:05:45,70 kind of straight forward. With that I'll move on to cargo containers so. 710 01:05:47,24 --> 01:05:54,16 The way the cargo containers is proposed the regulations are proposed that they 711 01:05:54,17 --> 01:05:58,16 would be committed. On not only on 712 01:05:58,17 --> 01:06:03,12 a temporary basis very very limited timeframe but also on 713 01:06:03,13 --> 01:06:09,53 a permanent basis under certain standards and. Not in every 714 01:06:10,04 --> 01:06:15,99 district not for every use the car in this case be permitted for 715 01:06:16,44 --> 01:06:22,10 institutional and multifamily residential use in the residential. Residential 716 01:06:22,85 --> 01:06:28,50 Boston institutional districts and for all uses in the commercial and the 717 01:06:28,51 --> 01:06:31,51 university medical services mixed use and D. 718 01:06:31,52 --> 01:06:35,26 Districts in accordance with following standards no want more than one cargo 719 01:06:35,27 --> 01:06:38,24 container. There is 720 01:06:38,25 --> 01:06:43,07 a limit on is size of cargo container the biggest current taters health care that I 721 01:06:43,08 --> 01:06:46,97 seen hard twenty by forty or twenty by forty five which is 722 01:06:46,98 --> 01:06:51,18 a little under former square feet. He would not be allowed to. 723 01:06:53,56 --> 01:06:59,80 Inhibit parking in circulation they cannot use for signage they would not be 724 01:06:59,81 --> 01:07:06,46 permitted in a front or side yard setback. They should not be readily visible from 725 01:07:06,47 --> 01:07:11,25 a street right of way that's probably one of the more important parts of this. Or 726 01:07:11,26 --> 01:07:17,86 the fronts of other buildings so. There are some cases where that's probably not 727 01:07:17,87 --> 01:07:20,64 possible though would you possible for people to use 728 01:07:20,65 --> 01:07:26,96 a car. So there is some allowance in what is proposed here that if they are placed 729 01:07:26,97 --> 01:07:32,38 a certain way if they are screened or if they're painted to match or be very 730 01:07:32,39 --> 01:07:37,95 similar to the building so they blend in then those to be permitted. Some people 731 01:07:38,50 --> 01:07:42,75 even internally some people that's why are we allowing for these these are not 732 01:07:43,03 --> 01:07:49,39 something that we really like to see there really are very very prevalent and I 733 01:07:49,40 --> 01:07:50,41 don't think it's just in to peak 734 01:07:51,00 --> 01:07:53,85 a lot of people use knees in some cases they're using them for 735 01:07:53,86 --> 01:08:00,02 a good purpose I know in the case of. Tire shops for example they have 736 01:08:00,03 --> 01:08:03,71 a lot of used tires that they need to dispose of and store for 737 01:08:03,72 --> 01:08:08,93 a short amount of time so it will use the shipping containers for storing tires. So 738 01:08:08,93 --> 01:08:14,03 . I guess one approach would be to not permit them at all which is how it currently 739 01:08:14,04 --> 01:08:16,14 is another approach would be to control him in 740 01:08:16,15 --> 01:08:22,53 a way that that is acceptable in this is really proposing the second approach so I 741 01:08:22,54 --> 01:08:22,88 just have 742 01:08:22,89 --> 01:08:27,11 a few examples this is one that's on lawmaker twenty eight hundred block I want to 743 01:08:27,12 --> 01:08:29,94 maker and the car containers located behind 744 01:08:29,95 --> 01:08:34,32 a building but it's also very visible from the front of another building. 745 01:08:37,66 --> 01:08:42,39 That's what it looks like it's right next to the building it's painted virtually 746 01:08:42,40 --> 01:08:46,98 the same color as the back of the building it's very difficult to see it. Under the 747 01:08:46,99 --> 01:08:53,96 proposed standards this would be. Here's another example is the north peak of 748 01:08:54,64 --> 01:08:56,59 zoning as Acts one land use as 749 01:08:56,60 --> 01:09:00,78 a thrift store you can see where it's located it's very visible from two streets. 750 01:09:02,99 --> 01:09:09,63 That's what it looks like not very attractive. Under the standards as 751 01:09:09,64 --> 01:09:16,12 proposed this would not be permitted it would have to be relocated onsite painted 752 01:09:16,13 --> 01:09:22,77 or at the screen. And then it would be permitted. There's another 753 01:09:22,78 --> 01:09:27,01 example from north to the. Next one's own district this is 754 01:09:27,02 --> 01:09:33,99 a warehouse distribution storage facility. Actually that's 755 01:09:34,00 --> 01:09:37,34 not that's not correct this is actually a thrift store like 756 01:09:37,35 --> 01:09:40,87 a secondhand store with a lot of storage becomes like 757 01:09:40,88 --> 01:09:46,02 a storage facility but it's not. So you can see where it's located it's located 758 01:09:46,03 --> 01:09:50,06 right in front step back. The next one district has 759 01:09:50,07 --> 01:09:55,11 a variable setbacks based on performance objectives performance standards but under 760 01:09:55,12 --> 01:10:00,50 the proposed standards this would not mean it would not be permitted it's very 761 01:10:00,80 --> 01:10:05,61 intrusive it's out in front it doesn't blend with the building I think it even has 762 01:10:05,62 --> 01:10:10,93 a sign on it but this could probably be modified to meet the standards if it was 763 01:10:10,94 --> 01:10:17,69 screened or if it was painted to blend with the building was told it. Was to show 764 01:10:18,42 --> 01:10:25,40 that there. Are they are. They are not so you're telling me these 765 01:10:25,41 --> 01:10:31,70 are conforming that should. Not conform to that you know conform to current code 766 01:10:32,43 --> 01:10:39,20 they're. Basically illegal. And some of these we have outstanding cases 767 01:10:39,21 --> 01:10:42,78 on were that were processing. 768 01:10:46,41 --> 01:10:53,11 So he questions whether containers comments so I'm curious here please find. 769 01:10:54,64 --> 01:10:58,99 Me There was a case a few years ago you probably recall we have 770 01:10:59,00 --> 01:11:04,16 a cargo container very soon someone to that except fifty times more attractive 771 01:11:04,26 --> 01:11:10,57 probably outside of school outside of heights education center we have an early 772 01:11:10,58 --> 01:11:15,99 childhood program there and which other special ed program there are down adaptive 773 01:11:16,00 --> 01:11:21,50 tribes so for children with disabilities and their trucks that are so best we built 774 01:11:21,57 --> 01:11:27,71 for them depending on what their disability is that are stored in that container of 775 01:11:27,72 --> 01:11:33,58 a container was paid to the exact same color of the first thing of the building the 776 01:11:33,59 --> 01:11:40,47 side of the building yesterday. But we had an issue arise where I 777 01:11:40,48 --> 01:11:46,51 don't know who it was with one of the city. You know staff members come out and 778 01:11:46,52 --> 01:11:47,68 tell us that we have to have 779 01:11:47,69 --> 01:11:54,68 a change it would be in violation of code and I think it turned out. If you 780 01:11:55,10 --> 01:11:58,60 recall and I'm talking you know I did so we ended up putting 781 01:11:58,61 --> 01:12:01,30 a fence around the. Change of 782 01:12:01,31 --> 01:12:07,52 a little bit. From what I understand that actually is 783 01:12:08,45 --> 01:12:12,11 it wasn't out of compliance in the first place correct is there some kind of 784 01:12:12,12 --> 01:12:13,45 exemption for schools. 785 01:12:19,98 --> 01:12:24,10 That's what ended up happening was it was 786 01:12:24,11 --> 01:12:29,14 a violation their car corrected OK because they got screwed it up getting screened 787 01:12:29,15 --> 01:12:32,17 here and there actually we use that as 788 01:12:32,18 --> 01:12:39,15 a model. For what can happen in in these in these standards so 789 01:12:39,16 --> 01:12:43,51 that if you're between this if you can see it from the street which I think you 790 01:12:43,92 --> 01:12:47,99 could. The next the next thing to do would be there's 791 01:12:48,00 --> 01:12:53,53 a screen it was actually did some very nice fencing I believe or look like fencing 792 01:12:53,54 --> 01:12:53,82 or 793 01:12:54,24 --> 01:13:00,07 a wall that blended very very well with the building so now that it's it's green so 794 01:13:00,08 --> 01:13:06,30 that would be compliance. With the. You 795 01:13:07,06 --> 01:13:12,80 you really keep Not every These are movable first of all so. 796 01:13:13,86 --> 01:13:20,31 Second of all. These cases are going to be case by case in 797 01:13:20,32 --> 01:13:25,51 here you know there really isn't any room on the property to put it behind the if 798 01:13:25,52 --> 01:13:31,20 you go back to the aerial to put it behind building as you can see so the next but 799 01:13:31,21 --> 01:13:32,75 it is appears to be in 800 01:13:32,76 --> 01:13:39,53 a front set back which is also one of our no no's so probably in this case 801 01:13:39,66 --> 01:13:46,15 setting it up against the building. Parallel to the to the front of that building 802 01:13:46,88 --> 01:13:53,29 and blending in with the building or if they'd been more screening and or screening 803 01:13:53,30 --> 01:13:58,73 it actually much like what you just described over at the school would be the would 804 01:13:58,74 --> 01:14:04,59 be the. Would be the way to go in this case so move 805 01:14:05,44 --> 01:14:07,00 back put up against 806 01:14:07,01 --> 01:14:16,29 a building and screen it. So they don't see it from the street. So 807 01:14:16,30 --> 01:14:20,80 it's curious or move it further and not have it at all which which I'm not and I 808 01:14:20,81 --> 01:14:25,86 guess I would you know I probably have to say I agree with your recommendation to 809 01:14:26,43 --> 01:14:30,49 try to control the type of containers that we have as opposed to not having them 810 01:14:30,54 --> 01:14:36,35 there are going to be businesses from being into the operating. Efficiently I was 811 01:14:36,36 --> 01:14:39,22 curious and you probably just noticed 812 01:14:39,23 --> 01:14:44,87 a little bit of the old rub anyone with nasty questions like what I thought was 813 01:14:44,88 --> 01:14:49,03 probably the most pure beautiful thing you could ever want to do we were going to 814 01:14:49,04 --> 01:14:54,29 give it to troops it was to children. Who could be one step before we could change 815 01:14:55,13 --> 01:15:00,80 your story make history. You cannot control. 816 01:15:03,58 --> 01:15:07,70 What bothers me about contain this you know it's 817 01:15:07,71 --> 01:15:12,94 a business model that apparently can't afford to. Stay in their building provided 818 01:15:13,45 --> 01:15:20,44 the physical building editions for stories of their time is on. Me 819 01:15:20,45 --> 01:15:21,19 This is just like 820 01:15:21,30 --> 01:15:27,88 a cheap way out. Of Horrors. Understand why they're doing 821 01:15:28,56 --> 01:15:32,59 it. There's better ways to fight it seems like he's 822 01:15:32,94 --> 01:15:38,65 a source of food issues for separation. Of this materials or something. 823 01:15:42,59 --> 01:15:46,32 To do with brand building. The building he couldn't do there. 824 01:15:49,60 --> 01:15:56,45 Well again he'd be allowed in accessory building for and also technically 825 01:15:56,46 --> 01:15:56,94 this is not 826 01:15:56,95 --> 01:16:03,82 a building. Under the building code this is not. It is not 827 01:16:04,20 --> 01:16:06,91 certified because it's not on 828 01:16:06,92 --> 01:16:11,96 a foundation of dozens doesn't have structural characteristics it qualifies as 829 01:16:11,97 --> 01:16:18,86 a building. So I think I think Mike put his finger on 830 01:16:18,87 --> 01:16:25,09 it as we we've come across so many They're ubiquitous they are part 831 01:16:25,99 --> 01:16:32,10 of much of our landscape now and we found out many are for good purposes for good 832 01:16:32,11 --> 01:16:35,52 reasons others are for because there's no. 833 01:16:39,35 --> 01:16:43,95 Good business reasons and others there's just no forethought in. Expanding the 834 01:16:43,96 --> 01:16:50,94 building we don't get any tax. Revenue off of us cargo container. But extra square 835 01:16:50,95 --> 01:16:51,34 footage of 836 01:16:51,35 --> 01:16:56,41 a building you know the community would and it would look better so word we're 837 01:16:56,42 --> 01:17:02,36 somewhat in the middle here of saying don't we don't want these there and we can't 838 01:17:02,70 --> 01:17:05,43 go out there and say oh that's a good perfect that's 839 01:17:05,44 --> 01:17:12,42 a good reason to have because you have trikes for. For children versus you have 840 01:17:12,47 --> 01:17:18,09 a bunch of old furniture that nobody wants. So I don't want to we don't want to 841 01:17:18,10 --> 01:17:19,59 legislate that we do 842 01:17:19,60 --> 01:17:26,71 a legislator how. Or lease. Or. Do 843 01:17:26,71 --> 01:17:33,57 . We we are 844 01:17:34,22 --> 01:17:40,82 taking the approach we want to. Be the place and the manner 845 01:17:41,22 --> 01:17:46,56 of which those are those are seen. I think Mr Woods and. 846 01:17:48,06 --> 01:17:54,04 Make excellent points here and I don't I guess I would hope that it's the policy 847 01:17:54,90 --> 01:18:00,77 of our city government that no one can just place one of these out there without 848 01:18:00,78 --> 01:18:07,77 some type of approve any time. And at that point so technically any of these that 849 01:18:07,78 --> 01:18:11,17 are out there outside of story building materials on 850 01:18:11,18 --> 01:18:16,87 a job site or something that's been built the only kind of legal reason I could see 851 01:18:16,88 --> 01:18:23,45 something of it occurring or temporary deliver of materials. Like I could see 852 01:18:23,46 --> 01:18:27,61 a container for tires they dropped it off for the day what's on the news tomorrow 853 01:18:28,36 --> 01:18:33,72 but those are the kind of under one business conditions what I what I've seen and 854 01:18:33,97 --> 01:18:36,86 sharing are someone's acquired these because I know you can get 855 01:18:36,87 --> 01:18:42,69 a couple and they placed them in the easiest place they could put them in and they 856 01:18:42,70 --> 01:18:47,52 work great because you can secure things in them and they're not easily accessed 857 01:18:47,91 --> 01:18:52,72 despite some people without water. So they provide 858 01:18:52,73 --> 01:18:59,00 a cheap story which almost in every case becomes contrary to building because it 859 01:18:59,01 --> 01:19:02,81 isn't and couldn't build something in the same condition so they're doing it 860 01:19:03,20 --> 01:19:08,78 outside and I guess I I would ask first that it be the policy of the commission 861 01:19:08,85 --> 01:19:12,84 staff to make sure the current. Current laws are even 862 01:19:12,90 --> 01:19:17,19 a pill and that we wouldn't do something contrary to what we're trying to do 863 01:19:17,20 --> 01:19:22,22 elsewhere and. Trying to make sure we resolve some of these visual challenges our 864 01:19:22,23 --> 01:19:28,15 community has with other various things that we're doing that we don't just 865 01:19:29,03 --> 01:19:33,28 arbitrarily start allowing this to happen I think there's an opportunity for 866 01:19:34,03 --> 01:19:40,40 storage space like this to be used in areas where people have out of sight out of 867 01:19:40,41 --> 01:19:44,89 mind areas and it might be more than the industrial parks or what have you but if 868 01:19:44,90 --> 01:19:48,04 you may return to that first camp where you gave 869 01:19:48,05 --> 01:19:51,59 a tire shop and I don't mean to single them out that was the example you gave me 870 01:19:51,89 --> 01:19:58,69 one. Here's why I would. I would initially be against this if you go back to your 871 01:19:58,73 --> 01:20:03,97 aerial that. I know exactly where this location is on the pic and on any of the 872 01:20:03,98 --> 01:20:06,22 businesses or the context that's 873 01:20:06,23 --> 01:20:11,64 a major shopping center. And yes that cargo container it's painted to patch the 874 01:20:11,65 --> 01:20:13,21 back of the building but it's still just 875 01:20:13,22 --> 01:20:18,36 a big cargo container sitting out on the lot but now the people that consider store 876 01:20:19,02 --> 01:20:20,11 they're looking at 877 01:20:21,03 --> 01:20:24,92 a cargo container which one time to attend those things are just allowed to sit 878 01:20:24,93 --> 01:20:31,66 there for us to they're not kept flexibilty. Nor are they I guess what nor do we 879 01:20:31,67 --> 01:20:36,30 probably enforce anything else upon them like we do and will build those cars. 880 01:20:38,15 --> 01:20:43,11 Sound asleep safety and everything just kind of looked at its. You know like 881 01:20:43,12 --> 01:20:46,58 a Little Foot Locker really wallet is something to put 882 01:20:46,59 --> 01:20:53,31 a lock on. I would be very leery of. Just allowing it to be there 883 01:20:53,35 --> 01:20:58,74 painted if there were and. If this was 884 01:20:58,75 --> 01:21:04,52 a stand alone walk on the edge of town an industrial park I could easily see there 885 01:21:04,56 --> 01:21:09,18 be like a. You know a permit that allows you something like this for 886 01:21:09,19 --> 01:21:13,44 a time one year you know until they can develop 887 01:21:13,48 --> 01:21:17,38 a business to justify an addition or something like they might put it out and out 888 01:21:17,71 --> 01:21:22,90 it will be till they can afford to build close to completion and I think there are 889 01:21:22,91 --> 01:21:29,86 some context I would be. Challenge to to to look at this it's been acceptable 890 01:21:29,87 --> 01:21:32,76 use even though it's a tire shop it's right next to 891 01:21:32,77 --> 01:21:37,44 a. Standard one retail shopping center that's got cotton shops. 892 01:21:40,71 --> 01:21:47,70 Drug stores and. It's trying to balance the reality of the problem even 893 01:21:47,71 --> 01:21:53,83 consider. Just just about right observation from what was what was proposed 894 01:21:54,50 --> 01:21:55,17 so on 895 01:21:55,18 --> 01:21:59,53 a side note if you'll allow me I do think it's cool opportunity if if we find 896 01:21:59,54 --> 01:22:03,68 a place we allow it it's on the condition that they have an agreement with the Arts 897 01:22:03,69 --> 01:22:05,23 Commission that it has to be painted like 898 01:22:05,24 --> 01:22:11,62 a beer. Is thinking aloud fun with its dorky but if you get any of it visible from 899 01:22:11,63 --> 01:22:16,28 the street and we do find a context whether it's an industrial park. Have 900 01:22:16,29 --> 01:22:23,23 a requirement. It's there or it's the. Church the requirement. 901 01:22:26,70 --> 01:22:33,33 That's my two cents Thank you. For the idea if I may I think. 902 01:22:34,75 --> 01:22:40,90 We struggled with this Mike can tell you how much time we burned thinking through 903 01:22:40,91 --> 01:22:47,23 these standards we've tried to use examples in the community that we think or if 904 01:22:47,24 --> 01:22:53,41 you will good role models for these standards. Mr Woods touched on. 905 01:22:55,22 --> 01:22:59,40 This one in particular. This is when 906 01:22:59,41 --> 01:23:06,28 a little bit further to try and blended in and we so we wrote that into 907 01:23:06,43 --> 01:23:12,07 the current draft we could just as well leave off the last sentence of the 908 01:23:12,08 --> 01:23:18,62 standards here and still require screening. From adjacent 909 01:23:18,87 --> 01:23:20,45 fronts of properties as well as 910 01:23:20,46 --> 01:23:26,98 a street so we sighted on the air. This could 911 01:23:26,99 --> 01:23:33,79 work and that's kind of what we wanted feedback on does this work. And I know 912 01:23:34,08 --> 01:23:34,27 take 913 01:23:34,28 --> 01:23:40,48 a connection here one of the. Three of you thought you could search the question of 914 01:23:40,49 --> 01:23:44,96 just people I work for so I. Get the. 915 01:23:48,01 --> 01:23:54,67 Point you leave me to the punch with regard to good time constraints of 916 01:23:54,68 --> 01:24:00,59 usage. Related related to these that. It. 917 01:24:02,52 --> 01:24:04,71 Using it to cover 918 01:24:04,72 --> 01:24:11,37 a gap in time when you have not. Gotten to go to a new building extend 919 01:24:11,38 --> 01:24:15,100 a building and do do something like that is one thing using it as 920 01:24:16,01 --> 01:24:20,57 a permanent solution is is entirely something different. 921 01:24:23,24 --> 01:24:27,05 And perhaps when you do you know move on and find 922 01:24:27,06 --> 01:24:32,06 a suitable property or build your own I understand there's you know there's 923 01:24:32,07 --> 01:24:37,16 obviously expense issues with that but. It cuts both ways. 924 01:24:40,19 --> 01:24:46,22 So I would just echo that. Stroke. I actually wish they had to. 925 01:24:47,29 --> 01:24:53,28 Do all the tires that he exposed in the what's going on actually in one of the 926 01:24:53,29 --> 01:25:00,16 container. You see of course the. 927 01:25:08,43 --> 01:25:11,47 So is there a problem now that consistency 928 01:25:12,00 --> 01:25:18,26 a good actor like. Five or one went to action to screen but 929 01:25:19,24 --> 01:25:22,22 somebody who is not as good as citizen has 930 01:25:22,23 --> 01:25:28,19 a school district. Ignore what the city St Is that part of it. 931 01:25:30,98 --> 01:25:37,17 Jordan you know I mean the rule is you can't have more than thirty days period 932 01:25:37,57 --> 01:25:43,93 anywhere so we're going from that to something that says you can have 933 01:25:44,20 --> 01:25:50,96 past thirty days and and to go and we have seen some some 934 01:25:50,97 --> 01:25:57,85 good examples of where they they may blend in or they just don't really. You 935 01:25:57,86 --> 01:26:03,34 don't see them from the streets and I think that's current where we resigned it is 936 01:26:03,35 --> 01:26:09,17 that there are many there are cargo containers that you will never see that are out 937 01:26:09,18 --> 01:26:15,75 there. And that's good in our opinion that's good so how do we so how do we 938 01:26:15,76 --> 01:26:20,29 institute that rule across the board and that's kind of what we came back with as 939 01:26:20,30 --> 01:26:25,29 well some people. You're doing it in instances and Mike doesn't have all the the 940 01:26:25,30 --> 01:26:30,70 pictures here there are there are others. You just he won't see it because they are 941 01:26:30,71 --> 01:26:35,74 behind the building out of sight out of mind does that really enter into our. 942 01:26:37,16 --> 01:26:43,52 Why we have this this rule. I don't I don't believe it is 943 01:26:43,57 --> 01:26:50,39 so. I know I should have instances when I have to. 944 01:26:51,46 --> 01:26:58,40 See these places through places that were your. Lights down the middle or what 945 01:26:58,41 --> 01:27:04,58 within their power of being basically uses our space. And I think that's 946 01:27:04,59 --> 01:27:09,31 a challenge we may run with some of this and that they are not beans good looking 947 01:27:10,30 --> 01:27:16,67 for her and so that might be something and think about what we just allow them 948 01:27:17,10 --> 01:27:22,16 without inspection which I know we're asking for imply some type of action we have 949 01:27:22,16 --> 01:27:23,40 . You know 950 01:27:23,41 --> 01:27:28,32 a license to process but I guess I'm anxious because they can readily and easily be 951 01:27:28,41 --> 01:27:29,00 used as 952 01:27:29,01 --> 01:27:35,03 a knock rights base and yet I took they can't be. There that is correct Oh don't 953 01:27:35,04 --> 01:27:40,65 misunderstand I'm I'm Those are the sort of things we would and we and we do right 954 01:27:40,66 --> 01:27:44,51 now you can occupy those are not habitable spaces so that's something we would 955 01:27:44,52 --> 01:27:49,89 enforce currently without with or without these regulations. It's just where we are 956 01:27:49,90 --> 01:27:56,52 trying with the with the standards regulate the placement of them not so much the 957 01:27:56,53 --> 01:28:01,50 use the use they are not to be used other than for storage purpose I would digress 958 01:28:01,90 --> 01:28:06,04 it could be done right spacious homes that play for me through the normal 959 01:28:06,05 --> 01:28:12,98 inspections and power rather than place it can plug quite space and inspect it it's 960 01:28:12,99 --> 01:28:19,28 the. Last seen creative use of part of containers to prove Apple's place that would 961 01:28:19,29 --> 01:28:21,28 want to discourage that if somebody comes up with 962 01:28:21,29 --> 01:28:25,72 a. Something that meets all those criteria I understand right now there is no there 963 01:28:25,73 --> 01:28:29,81 is nothing that determines whether it is or isn't being used for something that is 964 01:28:29,85 --> 01:28:34,98 technically not legally supposed to. Yes it's not 965 01:28:34,99 --> 01:28:40,22 a building so if we don't we don't allow its use other than for for storage 966 01:28:40,23 --> 01:28:46,81 purposes. So. What 967 01:28:47,18 --> 01:28:53,97 do. You know there was one other situation that one makes you aware of that we 968 01:28:54,21 --> 01:28:57,71 you know that we have those in the commercial areas we also have a situation in 969 01:28:57,72 --> 01:29:01,55 a neighborhood residential neighborhood that has quite 970 01:29:01,56 --> 01:29:07,03 a large storage container that pops up. Time to time. 971 01:29:09,02 --> 01:29:15,04 And it may or may not be for construction projects so one of the things that we've 972 01:29:15,04 --> 01:29:21,61 . We've researched looked into is seen. The pods 973 01:29:21,65 --> 01:29:28,62 moving containers that people use for legitimate purposes putting your stuff in to 974 01:29:28,63 --> 01:29:33,95 move it get picked up move it some some other place and you're moving to. Those 975 01:29:34,09 --> 01:29:40,25 those or I believe generally less than the two hundred square feet and I think from 976 01:29:40,26 --> 01:29:46,20 a size perspective I think the size and time perspective we have narrowed that 977 01:29:47,19 --> 01:29:48,05 into 978 01:29:48,22 --> 01:29:53,90 a thirty day up to two hundred square feet anywhere before it was come as big as 979 01:29:53,91 --> 01:29:59,85 you are for thirty days so that if you would wake up and saw your neighbor with 980 01:30:00,22 --> 01:30:00,49 with 981 01:30:00,50 --> 01:30:05,09 a four hundred square foot cargo container in the driveway probably wouldn't get 982 01:30:05,10 --> 01:30:10,70 a call or somebody we're going to call down here. So we're going to so that was one 983 01:30:10,71 --> 01:30:15,14 change we've made it more restrictive where you can have it anywhere if you have 984 01:30:15,15 --> 01:30:20,05 a smaller smaller size that's OK If you want to go bigger then we're going to tell 985 01:30:20,06 --> 01:30:26,10 you you cannot. Go anywhere that is that is your 986 01:30:26,94 --> 01:30:33,52 prerogative from the residential areas for that size. So that was one other point I 987 01:30:33,53 --> 01:30:38,41 just want to make. But it's tough it's tough issue of this is something we have. 988 01:30:41,29 --> 01:30:45,48 So. Many. Hours have gone. 989 01:30:51,12 --> 01:30:55,67 Thank you Mr Paul would like me to move on yes please keep me going to take 990 01:30:55,68 --> 01:31:02,42 a. Look at so the next one is defenseless and there are couple of pieces to 991 01:31:02,43 --> 01:31:08,70 this. Three really. One is that we would clarify 992 01:31:09,36 --> 01:31:14,26 fences should be made of normal materials typical materials the kind you could buy 993 01:31:14,76 --> 01:31:14,92 from 994 01:31:14,93 --> 01:31:21,90 a vendor so you wouldn't be able to use salvaged materials. Can even get on 995 01:31:22,19 --> 01:31:28,91 the times but something some of the types of materials we see are all good pallets 996 01:31:29,45 --> 01:31:36,35 old doors. Sheet metal things like that right now the term normal 997 01:31:36,36 --> 01:31:40,10 materials was used in the definition but it's not in the standards themselves so 998 01:31:40,11 --> 01:31:46,98 that's what that paragraph is intended to address and I part for me to tell you 999 01:31:46,99 --> 01:31:52,70 which page on the package this is from the fence section and it's the last forty 1000 01:31:52,71 --> 01:31:58,78 percent section the paragraph one. Gets people that it should be either one is the 1001 01:31:58,79 --> 01:32:00,30 page or the four that we're we've got 1002 01:32:00,31 --> 01:32:07,90 a diagram. Every. Part of this. This 1003 01:32:07,91 --> 01:32:12,37 doesn't really change anything anything that we're doing currently this is how 1004 01:32:12,38 --> 01:32:18,43 we've been regulating fences. This just clarifies because it's it's 1005 01:32:18,44 --> 01:32:23,89 a very confusing thing for the general public it's confusing for stepped up the 1006 01:32:23,90 --> 01:32:28,06 diagram that's why we have the diagram so that's what that addresses so that's not 1007 01:32:28,07 --> 01:32:30,81 really I wouldn't call that a substantive change it's just 1008 01:32:30,82 --> 01:32:37,09 a clarification and making the code easier to understand. So let me go to the 1009 01:32:37,23 --> 01:32:39,05 second paragraph it's 1010 01:32:39,06 --> 01:32:43,10 a paragraph or two in the last page of the fence section you know like to go back 1011 01:32:43,11 --> 01:32:46,62 to me. To the. Sly's we could. 1012 01:32:56,38 --> 01:33:02,59 All get so in the interest of being dressed in hysterics 1013 01:33:02,84 --> 01:33:06,72 and making Topeka more hysterically pleasing. 1014 01:33:10,11 --> 01:33:16,45 This this paragraph is really intended to address this type of issue. This site is 1015 01:33:16,95 --> 01:33:23,30 medical services district parking. Fences is six feet high have galvanized chain 1016 01:33:23,31 --> 01:33:24,07 weak it's not 1017 01:33:24,08 --> 01:33:28,10 a very attractive fence right now it doesn't look that bad it's relatively new but 1018 01:33:28,11 --> 01:33:32,70 these tended to tear it over time and rust and they just look bad over time and so 1019 01:33:32,71 --> 01:33:36,95 what we're proposing with these standards is in 1020 01:33:37,02 --> 01:33:43,31 a one I want to see one C two S and the districts. That. 1021 01:33:44,46 --> 01:33:50,38 That fences that are fence is still not let me read this carefully because it's 1022 01:33:50,39 --> 01:33:54,97 confusing but this is around parking in storage was constructed within the building 1023 01:33:55,29 --> 01:33:55,61 back 1024 01:33:55,62 --> 01:33:59,90 a long street rights of way not including alleys should be constructed of high quality 1025 01:33:59,91 --> 01:34:04,61 materials such as decorative block brick stone decorative precast concrete or 1026 01:34:04,62 --> 01:34:11,55 ornament ornamental metal. Other fences that might be approved within the setback. 1027 01:34:13,08 --> 01:34:17,39 That's OK there are some restrictions here as shown such as they have to be black 1028 01:34:17,40 --> 01:34:22,47 why no. Chain link or other normal materials but you need to be set back 1029 01:34:22,48 --> 01:34:23,62 a minimum of four feet with 1030 01:34:23,63 --> 01:34:28,83 a landscape in front of them with plants in front of them to mitigate the. Impact 1031 01:34:28,84 --> 01:34:35,62 of the fence. It's only show you another photo. This property zone see for. 1032 01:34:36,82 --> 01:34:37,63 This is 1033 01:34:38,00 --> 01:34:43,82 a six foot galvanized chain link fence that's pretty old started kind of tip 1034 01:34:43,83 --> 01:34:47,92 a little bit this is around a story. This is 1035 01:34:47,93 --> 01:34:52,61 a C four district this would not be affected by what's proposed. And the reason 1036 01:34:52,62 --> 01:34:55,23 that's not being proposed this time is this affects 1037 01:34:55,27 --> 01:34:59,42 a lot of property owners this is something that really needs 1038 01:34:59,43 --> 01:35:03,00 a little bit more oversight by the public if we were going to address this in the 1039 01:35:03,46 --> 01:35:08,24 C. Four districts but fences like this in the C. One and C. 1040 01:35:08,25 --> 01:35:15,25 Two districts. And like I said when I used to mess districts would be restricted 1041 01:35:16,08 --> 01:35:20,40 in the mixed use districts there are performance standards that dress fancy very 1042 01:35:20,81 --> 01:35:26,54 fashion and so this doesn't say things specific about Texas fix it this refers to 1043 01:35:26,55 --> 01:35:31,74 that section. So to be clear what you're saying at this time you're not you're not 1044 01:35:31,83 --> 01:35:38,18 getting into your seat for something they're simply voting no they want to 1045 01:35:38,82 --> 01:35:44,88 correct. Correct. And I do think this 1046 01:35:45,49 --> 01:35:46,53 this draft these 1047 01:35:46,54 --> 01:35:50,76 a little more betting there are sort of certain uses that rely on on fences such as 1048 01:35:50,77 --> 01:35:55,56 schools that are in our districts primarily but there might be some that are and so 1049 01:35:55,57 --> 01:35:59,20 these districts that we've mentioned. So we need to take 1050 01:35:59,21 --> 01:36:00,19 a little closer look at that as 1051 01:36:00,20 --> 01:36:04,44 a question let's say you were to apply that require that you could even want to get 1052 01:36:04,45 --> 01:36:09,50 to see for you wouldn't necessarily force this person move their friends today. 1053 01:36:10,70 --> 01:36:11,73 That's correct to be 1054 01:36:11,74 --> 01:36:17,00 a legal mind can form you right so only at the time that particular business or 1055 01:36:17,01 --> 01:36:22,39 proper You are SO IT'S TOO placed there ought to be to do and that would be to 1056 01:36:22,40 --> 01:36:28,19 replace the material or the posts or some major component but then they're hoping 1057 01:36:28,63 --> 01:36:35,39 to. Reach that to conform or. OK so this fence here 1058 01:36:35,89 --> 01:36:39,40 permitted meets the standards that would does 1059 01:36:39,41 --> 01:36:42,36 a legal mind conforming offense if this would were to be adopted. 1060 01:36:46,84 --> 01:36:52,72 OK. So the next next one this is not 1061 01:36:52,76 --> 01:36:55,21 a real big change to the code we have 1062 01:36:55,22 --> 01:36:58,33 a section in our in our sign code now that says if 1063 01:36:58,34 --> 01:37:04,70 a sign is not in good condition. The property owner can be required to remove or or 1064 01:37:05,00 --> 01:37:08,37 fix the signs so it is in good condition this is just an example of what we're 1065 01:37:08,38 --> 01:37:13,63 talking about. Or condition and so what we've done is just added some way in which 1066 01:37:13,67 --> 01:37:16,56 the fines better what that means. 1067 01:37:30,57 --> 01:37:37,22 So with that all move on the next item. I really spoke about this but Freeman 1068 01:37:37,23 --> 01:37:42,42 libraries we've got some language about free libraries. That's not because we think 1069 01:37:42,43 --> 01:37:42,67 there's 1070 01:37:42,68 --> 01:37:48,09 a big concern about the libraries we want to control or restrict But right now 1071 01:37:48,10 --> 01:37:54,89 they're doing are dressed in the code there are. Issues in other communities 1072 01:37:55,01 --> 01:37:59,72 where people have complained about the libraries right now someone complain about 1073 01:37:59,73 --> 01:38:05,09 it. I'm not sure how you answer that complaint because it's not really addressed so 1074 01:38:05,10 --> 01:38:10,13 what we've proposed it's language that would allow them but define what they are 1075 01:38:10,48 --> 01:38:15,67 going on with their size and scale and kind of depends on the use. When those are 1076 01:38:15,68 --> 01:38:21,51 at record are they done with the context of someone. With some authorization and 1077 01:38:21,52 --> 01:38:28,36 stole them and thus responsible for their upkeep. Or if it falls 1078 01:38:28,41 --> 01:38:33,42 to the property owner based on words I would say that the you know why you could 1079 01:38:33,43 --> 01:38:36,09 some private property yet they can't set with 1080 01:38:36,10 --> 01:38:40,31 a set back correct correct right away excuse me the right way and the right of way 1081 01:38:40,35 --> 01:38:41,91 it's tantamount to 1082 01:38:41,92 --> 01:38:48,92 a to your mailbox that you would you know I think there are exactly and I think as 1083 01:38:48,93 --> 01:38:55,87 long as they meet the. Report it's things and well. Try to 1084 01:38:55,88 --> 01:39:00,80 get ahead of the game here we haven't had any complaints so just be very honest we 1085 01:39:00,81 --> 01:39:06,09 just have are very aware of other communities where this has blown up. And the 1086 01:39:06,10 --> 01:39:12,82 people in it would complain because. We think it's going to have been. 1087 01:39:13,96 --> 01:39:14,38 Lost 1088 01:39:14,39 --> 01:39:20,97 a little. Part of. What's going to great lengths 1089 01:39:21,06 --> 01:39:24,92 and taken this to extremes and so we. Just want to get ahead of the game there. 1090 01:39:30,95 --> 01:39:36,58 So that also I have some good thing that has come out lately with the 1091 01:39:37,48 --> 01:39:44,36 blessings box I think is what it's called and so they're allowing people to play I 1092 01:39:44,37 --> 01:39:50,59 don't know can't Goodson things for people to take from agree with that fall under 1093 01:39:50,60 --> 01:39:57,40 that as well for. Your nation 1094 01:39:57,41 --> 01:40:04,39 boxes. I just think the idea would be this same and that's what. 1095 01:40:06,41 --> 01:40:11,95 I don't know if we could be so I mean honestly so much like signs we can be generic 1096 01:40:11,96 --> 01:40:17,97 a knob to allow a structure to be used for that sort of whether it's 1097 01:40:18,19 --> 01:40:25,17 a book or came good or whatever as long as it stays within certain parameters so I 1098 01:40:25,18 --> 01:40:31,14 think we can write that in to the to the draft or let you see it next to. That's 1099 01:40:31,22 --> 01:40:37,12 what I assume you would want that that's I was just asking OK I would need for 1100 01:40:37,13 --> 01:40:44,11 somebody to complain about somebody offering. Can good have green beans 1101 01:40:44,12 --> 01:40:48,03 and they're upset that they would be going to get 1102 01:40:48,04 --> 01:40:53,03 a container because they couldn't have one at home so I was just asking the 1103 01:40:53,04 --> 01:40:59,55 question. It 1104 01:40:59,74 --> 01:41:02,90 was not OK OK having 1105 01:41:03,46 --> 01:41:10,45 a quick look at. It To be clear Mr Hall One clarification of the the 1106 01:41:10,55 --> 01:41:11,13 language or 1107 01:41:11,14 --> 01:41:15,79 a narrative that you have included still or it's simply the beginnings of your 1108 01:41:15,80 --> 01:41:20,57 outline your context of this I'm going to guess you'll put something about it keep 1109 01:41:20,58 --> 01:41:24,92 it care and maintenance or other responsibilities or right now that's the context 1110 01:41:24,93 --> 01:41:29,91 of all you keep their cool so I guess I mean I want to make sure we have some type 1111 01:41:30,58 --> 01:41:37,57 of just saying they're allowed without any pretext or. Size height I'm not to get 1112 01:41:37,58 --> 01:41:42,21 into the government of the free libraries but at some point when you start down you 1113 01:41:42,45 --> 01:41:44,77 give an inch take a mile when we're promoting 1114 01:41:44,78 --> 01:41:50,26 a good thing we all sudden created. Something we lost control of the. 1115 01:41:51,49 --> 01:41:56,65 Wonders of it that happened you know the intent here is to is to set 1116 01:41:56,66 --> 01:42:03,32 a. Community standard on me is whether how big they can be 1117 01:42:04,23 --> 01:42:10,86 maintenance always comes down to I mean that's not something. That's part of goes 1118 01:42:10,87 --> 01:42:14,69 into property maintenance code it's not his own income OK so we don't get into 1119 01:42:14,70 --> 01:42:19,19 maintenance. Through it all fairness here. 1120 01:42:21,89 --> 01:42:28,25 So thank you for entertaining these drafts. Which we discussed 1121 01:42:29,06 --> 01:42:34,96 in the. Yes all I have questions or comments 1122 01:42:35,96 --> 01:42:39,55 thank you for your diligence and thank you for entertaining our observation it's 1123 01:42:39,56 --> 01:42:41,23 the. State 1124 01:42:41,24 --> 01:42:48,20 a little longer than normal today but I think you brought some. Concerns forward 1125 01:42:48,21 --> 01:42:54,15 that are worthy of getting out and making sure we got something there the sense of 1126 01:42:54,16 --> 01:43:00,25 the two but. I think your party. Aware of certain challenges that come with. 1127 01:43:01,51 --> 01:43:08,38 Appreciate if you do. Any other. Two or 1128 01:43:08,44 --> 01:43:12,42 more through the agenda items finders or anything else that needs to be for you in 1129 01:43:12,43 --> 01:43:18,63 your. Journey for the doing. Just share that is 1130 01:43:19,19 --> 01:43:20,90 have we will have 1131 01:43:20,91 --> 01:43:27,73 a. Of the very forward and. Some some Christmas presents 1132 01:43:27,88 --> 01:43:34,37 for you next month it is but it is we have about six items all zoning related 1133 01:43:34,98 --> 01:43:39,20 so. Brand overnight bag your purse. 1134 01:43:42,26 --> 01:43:46,14 Well again I'm sure I would welcome this person to the right commission pretty 1135 01:43:46,15 --> 01:43:51,31 joyous thank you but we found your first evening to be entertaining and. And 1136 01:43:51,32 --> 01:43:54,04 productive So with that I'd be entertained 1137 01:43:54,05 --> 01:44:00,33 a motion to adjourn. In the further discussion at 1138 01:44:01,04 --> 01:44:03,57 all in favor say aye aye same send 1139 01:44:03,58 --> 01:44:10,24 a post with your thank you. That was sent. To make me say that which I think is 1140 01:44:10,25 --> 01:44:16,88 a just you know you. Are. OK 1141 01:44:17,12 --> 01:44:17,85 And we do normally.